Hey all. So yeah, wanted your opinion. First off, my friend and I started this before we knew about the theme, and we aren't throwing our work out. Second, the theme sucks. It... it just sucks. I can see the use when combined with other things, but... no. And again, we wanted a full class for it.
Also, please, if your only advice is to reflavour an existing class, I'm going to ignore it. It's dumb to tell me to reflavour knght, cavalier, give a fighter kensai, or whatever. These are not what i'm looking for, and ALL those, AND samurai, were in 3e, so the argument that it's not needed is useless. It's goig to happen, and I'm asking for help, not "this is stupid and so are you" (heard that once when first asking about it.... oy) nor suggestions of simply reflavouring already existing classes. I'm asking for actual help here in making this thing work.
Also, in liue (I know I spelt that wrong) of masterwork weapons, which were more than simple bastard sword and short sword, which is what the katana and wakizashi were, I made a few new ones. The suggestion to just make reflavoured versions of those swords is.. well my guess is that guy who first said that stuff hadn't actually looked at the original samurai, because masterwork weapons are not just reflavoured normal swords.
Finally, (for now at least) its still early, so I'm missing most of the flavour text. I don't really care at the moment about that. That's stuff for later. Also yes, the flavour text for the description of the class is based in forgotten realms. Editing for later. Working in that right now.
Hope to hear some constructive critisism, and maybe suggestions.
WOW! It copied weird from the program. Sorry guys... if you can't read, tell me, I'll see what I can do. Maybe just clairify a specific part.... Again, sorry.
Proficiency in Wakazashi, Uchigatana (Katana) and Nodachi (Daikatana), and receives a set of two of the three blades at DM‘s discretion.
Samurai Reflexes:
As a samurai you have honed your reaction times, allowing you to defend and draw more effectively. +3 bonus to AC when wielding Uchigatana (Katana) or Nodachi (Daikatana) two handed. In addition, gain the bonus feat; Quick Draw.
Bushido:
When player makes a grab attack, target falls prone. Target also takes a minus to chance to escape grab equal to Strength modifier.
Iaijutsu Master:
Levels 1 - 10
+2(W)
Levels 11 - 20
+3(W)
Levels 21 - 30
+4(W)
Prerequisite:
Must be wielding Wakazashi, Uchigatana (Katana) or Nodachi (Daikatana)
Draw and attack, striking down your opponent in one fluid motion with a Tachi style strike. In order to use Iaijutsu Master, sword must be sheathed. Useable once per round. Can only be used if target is under effect of Samurai’s Challenge. Until end of next turn, sheathing weapon provokes opportunity attacks.
Samurai’s Challenge:
Mark a target. Target takes -2 to attack rolls for attacks that don’t include you as a target. Useable once per round. To use, make a Diplomacy or Intimidate check as a minor action instead of declaring the challenge to place the challenge.
Penalty:
If you fail, you cannot attack selected target for full encounter. If you do, you dishonour self. Gain 1 dishonour point.
Honour/Dishonour:
Honour:
Samurai must pick five creeds of the following list and follow them. Failure to do so accumulates dishonour points:
1:
Protect innocent bystanders. (+1 to saves on charm and fear effects)
2:
Accept all challenges, unless doing so would be clearly dishonourable. (+1 Attack to marked enemies)
3:
Follow all orders, unless doing so would be clearly dishonourable. (+1 Will)
4:
Do not slay those who surrender. (+1 Will)
5:
Do not slay the unarmed. (+1 Reflex)
6:
Loot no corpses, as committing such an act is disrespectful. (+1 Fortitude)
7:
Partake in no extreme revelry (Moderation is key). (+3 Endurance)
8:
Begin no combat. (+1 Initiative)
9:
End what you have begun. (+1 hit points)
10:
Slay all who challenge you. (+1 Damage)
11:
Know your station, and accept no disrespect from those in a lesser station. (+3 intimidate)
12:
Never disrespect those of a higher station. (+2 Diplomacy)
13:
Never present a challenge lightly. Follow through to the conclusion, whether peace or death. (+2 Damage while bloodied)
14:
Leave a dishonourable master willingly, lest you become dishonourable yourself. (+3 Streetwise)
15:
Honour those you slay. Burials or pyres and services. (+3 Religion)
16:
Never strike without your full force. Put both arms into each strike. (+1 Attack)
17:
Never strike without ceremony. Bow (minor action) and strike once. Never let a hand leave your blade when you strike. (+1 Attack to Iaijutsu Master strike after bowing)
18:
Test your might always. Challenge all strong warriors you meet. (+1 Attack against enemies of a higher level [DM need only say yes or no, not give monster’s actual level] or larger than you)
19:
Samurai do not embarrass themselves. Tripping over one’s own feet happens. Loosing one’s trousers while inebriated does not. (+3 Athletics)
20:
Honour the ancestors who reside in your Daisho. They like to be bathed. (Pay gold equal to enchantment level of all owned weapons, minimum 1, a day to clean them). (+1 Attack)
21:
Practice the tea ceremony, and entertain friends with it (10 gold a ceremony, once per week). (+2 Diplomacy)
22:
Compliment when compliments are earned. To not is to dishonour your allies‘ works. (+2 Diplomacy)
23:
Humbleness is the mark of the warrior. Speak not of your own works with pride to boast. (+2 Diplomacy)
24:
Eat no unclean foods. Prepare all yourself. Hunting an animal, thereby giving it a chance, is with respect. Cutting the throat of a tied cow is not. (+3 Nature)
25:
Never draw needlessly. Blood must be spilt. (+1 to bloodied creatures)
26:
Dress always well and with respect. If armour be stained with blood or mud, shower apologies, for only with graciousness may honour be preserved. (+2 Diplomacy)
27:
Be always benevolent, for the poor are the least. (+3 Diplomacy when speaking to “common“ NPCs)
28:
Be always honest. Your word is your soul, and it should never be untruthful. Inaction and silence are quite often more valuable than gold. (+2 Diplomacy)
29:
Withdraw from no challenge, even if to remain would mean certain death. Such is cowardice, and shames the line. (+1 AC)
30:
Alliances are sometimes for the darkness. Survival of the people is more important than those of relationships, whether friend, ally, or lover. (+3 Intimidate)
31:
Maintain an ancestor shrine with cleanliness and incense. If desecration is committed upon it, ensure vengeance is taken and the rebuilding of the shrine personally.(+3 History)
32:
Torture is for the weak, for practitioners do not know how to gain anything without pain. (+3 Diplomacy)
33:
Talk is weakness. Fear is power. Blood brings knowledge quickly. (+4 Intimidate)
34:
Keep sacred and safe the Daisho. Pray regularly to the ancestors through the blades. (Spend 5 hours in meditation to pray). (+4 Religion and +1 Attack after praying until next extended rest)
35:
The steed of the Samurai is akin to a brother, not a servant or mere beast of burden. To needlessly encumber, inconvenience or tire one’s brother is without respect. (Mount abilities increased by +2)
36:
The dojo is as sacred as one’s ancestors and Daisho, and often contains both. Expel disrespectful students, and accept expulsion yourself if needed. (+3 Intimidate)
37:
To fight for riches is cheap Give often to Charity. (+2 Damage)
38:
To fight for riches is to provide. Take only what you require. (+1 Damage)
39:
To fight for riches is power. Power leads to strength, and in strength, safety and peace. (+3 Damage+2 Attack)
40:
Knowledge is to never be squandered. A learned Samurai is a proud Samurai. Study the ancient writings and teach the tales and lessons. An illiterate Samurai is an idiot.(+1 to all knowledge skills [Arcana, Dungeoneering, Heal, History, Nature, Religion, and Steetwise] for use in knowledge skill challenges)
41:
Bring your blade to those that crawl, slink, and slither in the darkness. (+3 Dungeoneering)
42:
A wounded warrior can still fight, but not well. Give your best to your enemies, lest you shame them by forcing battle with weakness. (+3 Heal)
43:
Be aware of others. Shame comes to those taken advantage of. (+3 Insight)
44:
Know where the feet of your enemies lay, as well as your own. A missed step may prove fatal, and bring failure. (+3 Perception)
45:
A sure foot prevents an embarrassing fall. Don’t fall in the cow dung. (+3 Acrobatics)
Dishonour:
When you reach total Will Defence in Dishonour Points, you become dishonoured, loosing the class features Daisho Proficiency, Samurai Reflexes, Bushido, Iaijutsu Master and Samurai’s Challenge. You may instantly regain honour by committing Sepuku (suicide), which may need to be permanent. If you do not, you become a Ronin. To regain honour you must perform 3 honourable quests as determined by the DM. The DM might require fewer or more, depending on the severity of actions leading to dishonour, and severity and difficulty of assigned quests. If, as determined by the DM, you have dishonoured your old creed by too great an amount or deed, you are permanently dishonoured ain that path. You must then choose 5 new creeds. Doing so reduces the number of dishonour points allowed by 3 per tier.
(full blade) Nodachi:
Superior two-handed melee weapon.
40 gp
1d12
+3
10 lb
High Crit
Brutal 1
Heavy Blade
(bastard sword) Uchigatana:
Superior one-handed melee weapon.
35 gp
1d10
+3
6 lb
Versatile
Brutal 1
Heavy Blade
(short sword) Wakazashi:
Superior one-handed melee weapon.
20 gp
1d6
+3
2 lb
Off-Hand
Brutal 1
Light Blade
The Samurai teachings of Kara-Tur were well known for their power and skill. It did not take long for these to reach their way westward. Freed from the strict ways of Kara-Tur samurai, namely that they are born into it, Fearunian samurai became more focused on the military aspects, changing it to their own ideals, never forgetting what made a samurai famous in the first place. These samurai focused less on following lords, focused less on unflinching honour, like those of the traditional Knights of the land, but made sure to keep the aspect, as little remains, as it was taught that only through such discipline could one truly become samurai. It was a necessity, as Fearun lacked the caste system of proud Kara-Tur. Now many Samurai exist, trained in schools alongside other warriors, their own specialised group of honourable swordsmen. It is from these that many ways of honour have come about, many ideas from the west of what is honourable, and what is something to truly care about, and with each comes their own fighting styles.
Level 1 At-Will
Rushed
Skilfully strike with your blade.
At-Will Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Attack:
Strength +1 vs. AC
Hit:
1W + strength modifier damage
Increase to 2W at 11th level and 3W at 21st level.
Special:
When charging, you can use this power in place of a
melee basic attack.
Cross Slash
Two blades come down across each other at once.
At-Will Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement:
Must be wielding two blades
Attack:
Strength vs AC
Hit:
1W + strength modifier +2 damage
Special:
You can use this in place of a melee basic attack
Bushido Tumble
Any foe will reel under the pummel of your fists.
At-Will Martial
Standard Action Melee touch
Requirement:
Must not have a weapon or shield in either hand
Attack:
Strength vs Fortitude
Hit:
1d4 + strength modifier damage, and you can make a grab
attack.
Special:
You can use this in place of an unarmed melee basic attack.
Sailing Arrow
Loose an arrow at your foe.
At-Will Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged weapon
Requirement:
Must be wielding a bow
Attack:
Dexterity vs. AC
Hit:
1W + Dexterity modifier damage
Special:
This attack can be used in place of a ranged basic attack.
Level 1 Encounter
Kiai Speed
Your shout seems to speed your way.
Encounter Martial
Move Action
Effect:
Shift up to 3 squares and make a melee basic attack at the end.
Shocking Kiai
Your shout calls forth the spirits of your ancestors, their energy
empowering your blade.
Encounter Martial, Lightning
Minor Action
Effect:
Until end of next turn, all your weapon attacks deal additional
lightning damage equal to your wisdom modifier.
Kiai Of Skill
Watching your movements and heeding your suggestions, your allies
draw their bows and loose their fireballs just right. But enemies are
watching and listening too….
Encounter Martial
Standard Action Area burst 5
Effect:
Until end of next turn, all ranged attacks within 5 squares gain
bonus to attack and damage equal to twice your Dexterity modifier.
Kiai
Encounter Martial
Standard Action Melee touch
Level 1 Daily
Dire Cut
Concentrate on your blade, and let your strength flow through it.
Daily Martial, Stance
Minor Action
Requirement:
Must be using a Daisho weapon
Effect:
Until you miss with an attack or the stance ends, add 1d8 to
the damage roll.
One After Another
Two blades held, two lash out, the second coming down on the cut
of the other, slicing deeper.
Daily Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement:
Must be wielding two blades
Attack:
Strength vs AC
Hit:
2W + strength modifier damage
Effect:
Make a secondary attack with second weapon.
Attack:
Strength vs AC
Hit:
1W + strength modifier damage
Rain
Your enemies see one missile go into the air, but then three bodies fall.
Daily Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Ranged weapon
Target:
One, two, or three enemies
Attack:
Dexterity vs. AC
Hit:
1W + 10 damage for first target, second 1W + 5 damage, and third
1W + 3 damage.
Iron fist
One strike, one mind, one down.
Daily Martial
Standard Action Melee touch
Requirement:
Must have a free main hand
Attack:
Strength vs. AC
Hit:
2d8 + strength modifier damage and push the target 2 squares.
Level 5 daily
Flashing
You move with lightening speed, appearing behind your enemy, sword
drawn when before it was sheathed. A moment later your enemy falls.
Daily Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement:
Weapon must be sheathed
Attack:
Strength vs. AC
Hit:
3W + strength modifier damage, and shift during the attack through
your enemies’ space to the other side. If there is no available space, move
to the nearest unoccupied square. You cannot shift more than your speed,
nor more than is necessary to reach the nearest unoccupied square
opposite the target.
Special:
If target is under your Samurai’s Challengeit grants combat
advantage for this attack.
Deft Twins
Two swords whirl about.
Daily Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement:
Must be wielding two blades
Attack:
Strength vs. AC
Hit:
2W + strength modifier damage
Effect:
Make a secondary attack
Target:
one creature
Attack:
Strength vs. AC
Hit:
1W + strength modifier damage
Special:
If enemy targeted with the secondary attack was not the target of
the first, that enemy grants combat advantage for secondary attack.
First, this is completely unbalanced. That's fine. It just needs to be known so everyone can still have fun.
You've given them a striker mechanic (iajutsu) and a defender mechanic (-2 attacks). You've also given them a ridiculously strong grab attack that the brawler fighter would salivate over.
Defenses are messed up. Samurai in full garb wore the equivalent of scale armor, so you should allow more than hide. You've given them a +3 to AC when wielding a sword, which is unnecessary if you change the armor type. Finally, you've also given them a +2 bonus to one defense and +1 to another. Standard is +1 and +1, with just a few classes having +1 to all three.
The honor system is an interesting mechanic. However, the bonuses are over the top.
Finally, the class skills have no relationship to the ability scores of the class. My suggestion is use the warlord as a basis: strength with either intelligence or charisma. Then have skills of religion and history or intimidation and diplomacy. The armor change above means dexterity would be unnecessary, and constitution doesn't particularly add anything.
I did not check hit point levels compared to other classes. You have some fun stuff in there, but it needs further revision and balancing.
No argument about revision. Like I said, it's still early, with almsot no editing. For armour, tried to expain that to my friend, but you'd not beleive how adamant he was against it. The bonuses are to balance that lack out. And yeah, he's kinda a between of striker and defender. For Bushido, we wanted something for that kind of option, something to set it apart. A suggestion, if any, would be nice. The Dex is actually for the "archer" build of it, and the short sword. For skills we had tried to do a samurai feel,r ather than just going base by stats, nesesarilly. Samurai is not reall the skill user of the group. Hit points starting rogue, gained paladin, basically. As for honour, that basically is this class's version of builds. Plus since some limit you as a character, they're somewhat more powerful. For example,To fight for riches is cheap Give often to Charity. (+2 Damage)
That's basically, in roleplay, you giving up most of the treasure (yes you would have to roleplay this guy like this.)
Okay, first, try copying the stuff out manually, that's probably the only way you'll fix the formatting (not to mention make it less of an eyesore to read).
Second, unless DEX or INT is the primary stat or your ONLY choices for secondaries, HEAVY ARMOR IS MANDATORY. AC is the most often targeted defense, and to dump it is CRIPPLING.
Similarly: +2 to ONE non-AC defense, OR +1 to more than one. Pick one or the other, can't have both.
Third: Classes generally have (2*number of trained skills)+1 skills to choose from. It would be a good idea to expand your list.
Four: A wakizashi is a short sword. A katana is a long sword. A nodachi is a great sword. You will invite nothing but ire for ignoring this; please remember that no class that gains entire categories of weapon proficiencies gains any superior weapon proficiencies.
Five: Finally getting to class features! *Daisho Proficiency: Unnecessary. I suggest switching this to encourage use of the weapons in tandem, as with 3.x's samurai. *Samurai Reflexes: Broken. When you wield a weapon in two hands, you are making a conscious choice to have lower AC. If you feel this is necessary, I recommend dropping it to +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex. * Bushido: No. * Iaijutsu Master/Samurai's Challenge: Dealing with these together. +[w] as a damage mechanic is actually somewhat innovative, though I would say barbarians should have gotten it first. Oh, well. The problem, though, is that you claim to be a Striker; Samurai's Challenge shouldn't mark. In addition, the draw/sheath mechanics are very wooly in this game. My suggestion: I've tentatively outlined a condition I call menaced. A menaced creature takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls that include the creature menacing it as a target; an anti-mark. Have Samurai's Challenge apply that condition, and expand Iaijutsu Master to apply to any attack made against the menaced creature when it attacks you. *Honour/Dishonour: This needs to go. Now. If not sooner. Outside, set it ablaze, huff some bleach, excise it from memory. We do not have roleplay entwine with mechanics in 4th edition. Ever.
I will not be looking at the powers unless and until you can get them formatted better.
That all being said, and I'm aware you've declared an intent to ignore this kind of comment, you might in fact be better off building from an existing class. 4e is a fundamentally different beast from previous editions; in 3rd, concept becomes class, while in 4th, class becomes concept, see? I will, in fact, point out that you could not pay me to use this right now. Because, yes, a samurai is a fighter. Hell, it's actually a title that anyone of any class would be able to hold. But then, when's historical accuracy ever stopped this game? (I, for one, would like scythes to not suck anymore...)
First, the katana was a bastard sword, not long. Second, they were masterwork. I tried to make masterwork, since they don't have them, since superior are basically as such. Thogugh I'll suggest removing the other proficencies, or at least altering them.
Second, again, the AC bonus was meant to offset the lack of heavy. His choice.
Third, what's the reason for the skills?
Four, same with defences.
Five, Daisho profiency goes into the simulated masterwork, since that's what they had in 3e. The reflexes are again to offset the AC lack, becausethey dont ahve heavy armour. Again, no heavy was his choice, and I could not convince him otherwise. His logic is laquered armour is light, or medium, not heavy, which is usually metal. I can see where he's comming from, kinda. But I'll suggest your sheild bonus. For Bushido, wanted something for the unarmed, make it an option for samurai. Suggestions? For iajitsu, I'll definetely suggest that to him. As for honour, again, it takes the place of builds. And sure, if this were official roleplay effecting it would be bad, but my groups LOVE to roleplay. I eman LOVE. The group I'm DMing actually goes whole sessions without ever fighting (though i try to throw at least one token fight in there).
For the first post, Nick, I'm sorry to say your buddy's trying to pull the wool over your eyes. There is absolutely nothing superior about a katana compared to a European cruciform sword, and in fact the katana pales in comparison due to being lighter, more brittle and having only a single cutting edge. I'm only going on with... this... because, yes, I'd like to be as helpful as possible when the most helpful option's been refuted in the OP.
For skills, it's pretty much just to ensure that you can have no two characters of the same class with the same skills. Defenses, again, he's trying to suck you into an ill-conceived notion of Eastern superiority; a samurai is pretty much just a fighter, that's it. If, at some point, you decide you'd like a more serious samurai "build" (a fighter could be converted extremely easily) I'd probably find it a bit easier to help with that.
Now, as for roleplay? Roleplay is roleplay. Anything that comes of roleplay is up to the DM to decide; anything you post here is assumed to be mercilessly picked apart and then sewn back together until any table should conceivably be able to use it. If you as a DM want to assign these mechanical bonuses or penalties to how your samurai player(s) behave, go ahead, but it's a bad design choice, as we've learned in 3.5. No offense to you, but creating a code that can punish your players mechanically for not following it is basically an invitation for the DM to screw them over. So, yes, my kneejerk is to make it roleplaying suggestions and nothing else.
For menacing? Note that marking an enemy penalizes that enemy for not attacking you. Menacing him does the opposite; he takes the penalty when he attacks you. Which, in retrospect, might not fit too well with the rest of this, hmm...
Again, we in no way want to just reflavour an existing class. It's just boring, and feels so impersonal. We're also fully aware the east is not superior. The defences are negotiable and alterable. he's right thoguh, about not generally using metal armour.
The katana was sharper, but they both basically did the same cut at the end of the day, because the european longsword was heavier. But the thing is the weapons in 3e had masterwork. I wanted to reflect that. Recall, this is a game where a pixie can push and prone an ancient red. Not going for TOTAL realism (yes, I said that after talking about a real samurai's armour). I wanted said swords to reflect masterwork.
Basically this stuff is going to happen. I'm not really asking to totally amke it work in all games, as per the roleplay mix, just try to help balance it. But yeah, i should have in fact forseen that people would likely do that. Eh. I suppose it'll just have to do a lot more work to make it work. See what some of the other plaers think too.
Sorry, but the honour stuff was loved by everyone in our group and kinda has to stay. Don't get me wrong. I see why you'd hate it. There's no way this would be able to work in a normal game, although they DID introduce an honour sytem in the same magazine (dragon 404) that has the samurai theme (again, not using because it does not make em feel samurai, mechanically).
So thank you guys for the ideas. DEFINETLY gonna suggest menacing, and some of the defence changes, and mention the skills thing. At least you guys weren't dicks. But yeah, as you said, peopel are gonna pick that part apart entirely, so sadly this won't work as I'd hoped. Shame. Oh well. Was just gonna be in my little group anyway.
But can you do it without unbalancing it compared to everyone else at the table? That's what I'd like to see. Whatever you end up doing with it, good luck and play well, yah?
