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Nov 13, 2012 -- 6:40PM, YagamiFire wrote:

Nov 13, 2012 -- 9:19AM, lokiare wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />This is the Burden of Proof fallacy. We are both participating in the discussion it is on both of us to provide proof, not on one or the other.

You are making the claim. Provide proof that the 5mwd is innately broken. I cannot prove that 5mwd is NOT broken because one cannot usually adequately prove a negative. Something broken would appear in everyone's games at one point or another.

Again read the fallacy. You are trying to use unsound reasoning to 'win' the argument, rather than using sound reasoning to educate or come to a mutually beneficial conclusion to the argument. You actually can prove that the 5MWD is not broken if show examples where it specifically can't happen according to the rules. The closest anyone has come to this was random encounters. This was shown to be bypassed by various spells.

Nov 13, 2012 -- 6:40PM, YagamiFire wrote:

Go ahead, explain to me how you are going to mathematically break down a game to examine its variables without doing something illegal like reverse engineering the game.

...

Wow. Go to any game store right now and pick up a copy of the strat guide for Street Fighter or SFxTekken or Tekken Tag Tournament 2 or most any other fighter.

Frame data is present in those books.

They only tell you how to play to win, they don't prove one way or the other that the characters are unbalanced or broken...

Nov 13, 2012 -- 6:40PM, YagamiFire wrote:

I'm also a game designer by trade, and the particular game you are talking about fit on a 32 megabit cartridge, yeah, it has a tiny number of variables. I'm talking about variables that matter, not bits and bytes that make up color data for the screen. Now it is you that are making outrageous claims and have no clue what you are talking about. There are only a few variables that matter. The X,Y position of both characters. The move frame they are in. The move they are in. That's about it...

I honestly doubt your a game designer by trade if you think there's a small amount of variables in a game because it's on a 32 megabit cartride. At least not a video game designer.

Doubt all you want, then check out the credits to "Devil's Whiskey". Its an older game, but my name is in the credits. Now that's out of the way. 32 megabits is 32,000,000 bits, not bytes. A byte is 8 bits, so divide by 8 to get the actual number of bytes. That's 4,000,000 bytes. Then take into account variables are either 8 bit or 16 bit on the super nintendo. Depending on how many variables there are (including graphics) most of that 4MB is probably graphics and instructions to the SNES cpu. The fewer variables you have, the faster the games run. So they would want to do it with the fewest number of variables possible. Once you take into account the pathetic speed of the SNES, you will come to the conclusion that they used very few variables and not 'millions' like you are trying to say...

Nov 13, 2012 -- 6:40PM, YagamiFire wrote:

Super Street Fighter II has 16 characters. Those characters have 6 basic attack buttons. That means to know even ONE character in and out, there is a range of 16 characters * their 6 attacks * your 6 attacks creating 576 seperate possible interactions between basic standing attacks. Again that is JUST for standing attacks. Now factor that for standing vs jumping, jumping vs standing, standing vs crouching, crouching vs standing, jumping vs jumping and crouching vs jumping. Now consider that there are also special attacks for every characters. And throws. And command normals.

Yeah that is a TINY number of variables right?

Actually you are only dealing with 2 characters at a time, with 6 attacks so that's 6*6 = 36 different combinations of moves. Some of which don't interact so the actual number is much lower.

Nov 13, 2012 -- 6:40PM, YagamiFire wrote:

Oh now take ALL that and factor in knowing the spacing for all of it across a screen of pixels when you consider the Hit/Hurt boxes of those moves.

And any one of these interactions could be the difference between winning or losing a tournament.

You flat out have no idea what you're talking about.

It appears you can't even do basic math, look who's talking...

Nov 13, 2012 -- 6:40PM, YagamiFire wrote:

As for the rest of your approach regarding this whole "problem" of the 5mwd you have answer me this...

Is there ANY possibility at all that this problem could be caused by something you are or are not doing as DM of your games?

Yes, it could entirely be because of my play style. 5E however has to support most if not all of the play styles of its players and DMs. If it doesn't D&D gets shelved. That's what you don't seem to understand...

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:25PM, YagamiFire wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Hell, there was over a DECADE between Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Street Fighter 4...guess what I did in between? I played Alpha 3 because it was what I liked. If 4 never came out I would have just kept playing Alpha 3...in fact, sometimes I still do.

The Street Fighter III series called.
It wants to know where you were.

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:14PM, YagamiFire wrote:

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:12PM, lokiare wrote:

Nov 13, 2012 -- 11:07AM, Maxperson wrote:

Nov 13, 2012 -- 9:55AM, Orzel wrote:

I just want to see the rules for the Solid Fog, Scrying, and Teleport so I know how much rage I must place in my survey answers.

Scrying would be good if there was a chance of failure and/or a false vision AND it was costly.  So long as the players cannot be certain of success or of what they saw, I don't mind divinations.  It's just when they are cheap and nearly infallible that they become really problematic.

Money doesn't matter anymore since you can't buy magic items. Count up the gold in the three adventures and divide by 4 or 5. There's so much gold you won't know what to do with it all...

...money doesn't matter if you can't buy magic items?

Wow.

No longer sure if not just a troll...hmm...

Did you add the gold up in the adventures like I asked? It falls into the thousands just for the first adventure. What other than plate mail are you going to spend that kind of money on?

Yeah, go ahead and personal attack because you don't want to look at the truths I unveil...

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:25PM, YagamiFire wrote:

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:18PM, stoloc wrote:

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Really it does not matter to me if 5e suits my playstyle- I'm sure I'll find a game that does and won't think twice about it so you are right there is no problem from my side of things.

If enough fans of dnd feel that 5e does not suit their playstyle and choose not to buy it wotc/hasbro will have a problem but thats their problem not mine.

Now THERE is a good attitude. And I mean that quite seriously.

I have played SEVERAL editions of D&D and found them to be fun...any of them would be teachable to someone 10, 20, or 200 years from now. And I have them all in digital format so they aren't going anywhere.

Basically, if 5E is useless garbage it is ENTIRELY Hasbro and WOTCs problem, not that of the player base.

Sadly, some have become so indoctrinated with things like yearly game releases for their video game systems, that they think the world stops if their favorite series isn't being made. "What will I do now?!??!" Uh...keep playing what you've been playing and keep getting better at it? God forbid.

Hell, there was over a DECADE between Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Street Fighter 4...guess what I did in between? I played Alpha 3 because it was what I liked. If 4 never came out I would have just kept playing Alpha 3...in fact, sometimes I still do.

Wait, so you are openly admitting that you pirate WotC products? That's dangerous. I'd watch for a lawsuit or a tempban coming your way soon since you said that...

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:47PM, Alan-Kellogg wrote:

Nov 13, 2012 -- 7:43PM, lokiare wrote:

Here let me link it again so you can read it. 4E failed in the same way that 3.xE failed. Its called unrealistic sales goals.

Source 1
Source 2

Please read and then come back educated...

If I may expand, you can't grow the customer base by shrinking the availability of options.

Exactly. Both our play styles need to be supported and yelling at us and telling us we are playing wrong does not help...