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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 2:37PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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The idea of a dump stat is awful, and all six stats as defenses is the single biggest thing that I've seen that could help prevent dump stats from happening in the first place.
No it won't. Not while stats are added to attack rolls.
"No dump stats" is not the same thing as "all stats are equal"
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 7:02PM
#12
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I was just taking the new survey
Where does one find these surveys? I thought they came through email, but I've yet to get one.
As for ability scores, I truly feel that classes that have high stat dependency - say, a strength fighter will need strength, dex, and con to be effective truly suffer when it comes to saving throws, compared to a wizard, whose spell DC only comes from int, but has a plethora of options to target pretty much any stat of their choosing.
My fighter won't likely make saves against wis, int, or cha, seeing as spell DCs improve over class levels, but I have no room to invest in those stats, and that saving throws do not improve over character levels.
I guess what I'm really trying to say that is strength and constitution are largely worthless.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 7:32PM
#13
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Oh, I just caught the survey. I'm slow.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 7:35PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Feb 22, 2012
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When did we get in the business of making characters with no weaknesses the norm? Pretty much every hero has a tragic flaw :P
When they playtest packet came out with monsters that can't hit and AC 18's and +7 to hit at first level for the PC characters. You have to get the saves in there to finish the job of making invinsible PCs
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 8:01PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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When did we get in the business of making characters with no weaknesses the norm? Pretty much every hero has a tragic flaw :P
Most tragic flaws seem explicit not due to lack of versatility you need special knowledge to exploit it. They seem all around awesome....but they missed a spot just over that heal.
Winners play to there own strengths.. ie if they have great discipline and mess with there head thats what you run in to.. if they have awesome spirit and mess with there head you run in to that. .. if they have a intricate and labyrithed mind you find yourself trying to get past its complexity. IE save based on WIS/CHA/INT...
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 9:03PM
#16
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All six stats as defenses is only a very weak measure against dump stats. I think there's sort of this perception that having an 8 in something somehow makes you heinously weak in that area, but it's just a -1 vs. not dumping that stat. It matters, but not that much. If dumping a stat is letting you boost another one, then it's not even like you're weakening your defenses overall. A character with 12 Con and 8 Cha is not straddled with a glaring weakness compared to a character with 10 Con and 10 Cha. He'll have +1 on some saves and -1 on others.
There's kind of a mental tendency (I have it too) to think of the difference between 10 and 8 as represented a scary and potentially dangerous shortcoming while thinking of the difference betwen 10 and 12 as not really much of a big deal... but they're (pretty close to) the same thing. To the extent that a character can live with a 10 instead of a 12, they can live with an 8 instead of a 10.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 9:35PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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I think the main problem with saves is how high they can get especially from spells. If Mr Big the enemy wizard tries to dominate you, well chances are you are dominated. DC 17ish saves are pretty damn hard to hit even in your prime stat. 6 saves works fine for me, but the save DCs should be much, much lower. Especially when talking save or else effects. Like have the base DC be 0+attribute mod+class mod and have damaging spells work on the to hit model.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 9:39PM
#18
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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If anything, I'd push things in the opposite direction: keep every stat as a save, but make them real ability checks: d20 + ability score.
That would both discourage dump stats and encourage variety in spells or maneuvers, because sorry Mr. Mage, but you're not going to make that Ogre fail a Con save.
The metagame is not the game.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 9:50PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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If anything, I'd push things in the opposite direction: keep every stat as a save, but make them real ability checks: d20 + ability score.
That would both discourage dump stats and encourage variety in spells or maneuvers, because sorry Mr. Mage, but you're not going to make that Ogre fail a Con save.
Not bad. I like that idea. d20+12 has a good chance to hit those dc 17 spells, and yeah the 20 strength ogre will just auto break free of spells like web. Which is here I think spells that can just shut you down should be. Big risk, big reward. Right now it is low risk, big reward.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:09PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2010
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The idea of a dump stat is awful, and all six stats as defenses is the single biggest thing that I've seen that could help prevent dump stats from happening in the first place.
No it won't. Not while stats are added to attack rolls.
Yeah, the more defense stats you have, the less valuable each of them becomes.
A bonus to an attack stat helps on 100% of your attack rolls, but a bonus to your defenses helps on only 1/6th of your defense rolls.
The more defensive stats you have in the game, the less valuable each defense becomes.
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