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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 10:50AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Gish, basically. The same thing that the initial Sorcerer seemed trying to do, just with different mechanical structure. Heavy armor, shielded defendery-type, but using magic instead of weapons. The point was less to manifest a specific concept, but rather to explore around the edges of character design to find the rough spots.
And if Arcane Dabbler is there to give you utility, why could you use it to gain attacks?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 10:55AM
#42
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He should have a worse time. Unless, of course, he spent a feat allowing him to be better at it.
Which is what Arcane Dabbler should do.
That it doesn't is my exact concern, but I place the blame more on the class bonus structure than on the feat itself.
True.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 10:56AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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A more direct comparison:
Arcane Dabbler should make as big a deal for a fighter using Shocking Grasp as whatever the TWF specialty does for a wizard using two weapons.
And both of those shouldn't be automatically worse than 'traditional' methods. You're spending a feat, you damn well better get some benefit out of it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:04AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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Gish, basically. The same thing that the initial Sorcerer seemed trying to do, just with different mechanical structure. Heavy armor, shielded defendery-type, but using magic instead of weapons. The point was less to manifest a specific concept, but rather to explore around the edges of character design to find the rough spots.
And if Arcane Dabbler is there to give you utility, why could you use it to gain attacks?
Number 1: it is arcane initiate not arcan dabbler
Because for an actual arcanist the feat can be used to get another attack spell that is useful. For non casters it is best, or most intelligently, used for gaining a utility spell.
Also yeah just wait a while. Gish isn't currently available yet. They tried it before, and realized they needed to go back to the drawing board on it. Like the overall message of this Q&A: This isn't a full system yet, it will not be able to accomplish all things. Wait for them to actually put out the gishes rather than trying to hammer it out of this incomplete alpha test system. just because you can't use the current options to create what you want doesn't mean it will be impossible in the future.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:06AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2009
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A more direct comparison:
Arcane Dabbler should make as big a deal for a fighter using Shocking Grasp as whatever the TWF specialty does for a wizard using two weapons.
And both of those shouldn't be automatically worse than 'traditional' methods. You're spending a feat, you damn well better get some benefit out of it.
and the wizard with the TWF speciality will have little to no attack bonus with those weapons.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:07AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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And both of those should be encouraged, not discouraged.
Give the Fighter a slightly higher bonus if you want to emphasize that being a fighter is awesome. But +3 is too much.
And why should the system tell me what spells to pick? Why can't I pick them?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:11AM
#47
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Like the overall message of this Q&A: This isn't a full system yet, it will not be able to accomplish all things. Wait for them to actually put out the gishes rather than trying to hammer it out of this incomplete alpha test system. just because you can't use the current options to create what you want doesn't mean it will be impossible in the future.
And how would it have hurt them to indicate that somewhere in the playtest package? They knew they were still working on the Two-Weapon specialty and they could have easily told us that.
and the wizard with the TWF speciality will have little to no attack bonus with those weapons.
Well, some wizards might have a pretty decent Dex score, and if they are using finesse weapons then they should do ok, especially given the realms of bound accuracy. Sure, the wizard might not be as accurate as a Fighter, but he should still do alright compared to a Cleric (until someone tries to hit him of course).
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:12AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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A more direct comparison:
Arcane Dabbler should make as big a deal for a fighter using Shocking Grasp as whatever the TWF specialty does for a wizard using two weapons.
And both of those shouldn't be automatically worse than 'traditional' methods. You're spending a feat, you damn well better get some benefit out of it.
I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the feat should be equal to multi-classing?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:14AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I'm saying that class should mean more than a +2 bonus to 'approved' attacks. An arcane dabbler would get one, singular at-will. A multiclass fighter/wizard will get a whole lot more.
And both deserve baseline effectiveness.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 11:20AM
#50
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I'm saying that class should mean more than a +2 bonus to 'approved' attacks. An arcane dabbler would get one, singular at-will. A multiclass fighter/wizard will get a whole lot more.
And both deserve baseline effectiveness.
As in their choice of any 0 level spell usable at will in order that the 6th and 9th level abilities can still apply and they can use their favorable attack bonus? I agree completely.
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