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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 10:42AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I read it, which is why I noted the part where you said "I would assume."
There aren't rules about this. There don't need to be rules about this. You inventing rules about this is your opinion and suggestion, not an actual rules answer, and that distinction should be made clear.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 10:49AM
#12
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Your statement indicates that you believe that Rituals that target creatures may not target objects at the DM's discretion. How did you conclude this?
Because by strict RAW only powers that target creatures can target objects instead. not Rituals.
Of course the DM may allow anything if he want to.
RC 107 Targeting Objects: At the DM's discretion, a Power that target one or more creatures can target one or more objects, as long as the number of target does not exceed the number specified by the Power.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 12:00PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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by strict RAW only powers that target creatures can target objects instead.
Right, but the writers have a tendancy to use the word "power" a bit liberally. Example: by strict RAW keywords only apply to 'powers'. This would exclude all non-powers like feats, terrain, weather, traps, events, rituals, improvised (DMG p.42) actions, etc. (ok, some of those might be powers, but not all). I don't think that was the intent. Similarly, I don't think we want to tell newcomers that those things cannot target objects.
Indeed, the 'Power' rules (PHB p.54-59) cover some major 4e concepts. Expecting those concepts to apply exclusively to 'Powers' might not be warranted. i.e. the zone rules are exclusive the power section, but many non-power effects still use zones. It's similar to how some players felt that the Actions in Combat rules (PHB p.286) didn't apply to monsters since they were written for PC's.
Of course, this is moot for the current discussion, since Remove Affliction doesn't target creatures (indeed, rituals generally don't have a 'target' line at all).
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 12:41PM
#14
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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I see no reasons to think that when the rules say ''powers'' they means any more than that.
Otherwise they would say ''effect''.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 12:42PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I see no reasons to think that what the rules say matters in this case.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 1:11PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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I see no reasons to think that when the rules say ''powers'' they means any more than that.
(off-topic side discussion) Am I correct in concluding that the reasons I provided above do not seem valid to you?
Do you believe that feats, terrain, weather, traps, events, rituals and improvised actions don't have have keywords, cannot target objects, and are not subject to the PHB p.54-59 'Power' rules (like the zone rules)?
For that matter: do you feel that the Actions in Combat rules (PHB p.286) don't apply to monsters since they were written for PC's? (It's an honest question: there were several posters that previously felt this way, and I vaguely recall you being one).
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 1:46PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yes.
Things that are not powers are not powers.
I don't have the book handy, but PCs and monsters follow the same action rules.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 2:15PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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Things that are not powers are not powers.
How do you reconcile when non-powers (feats, terrain, weather, traps, events, rituals, improvised actions) use power specific terms (like targeting, zones, keywords)?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 2:42PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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They don't. At least, they shouldn't. To take traps as an example, a trap activating is a power. Feats, features, and the like specifically should not ever reference targeting, unless there is an underlying power that they key off of. Something like Lightning Field from the Lightning Fury paragon path, for example, is not a power - and does not gain any effects that would apply to powers, has no keywords, etc.
If a non-power entity is using power rules, that's an error on the part of the designer.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 08, 2012 - 3:05PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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They don't. At least, they shouldn't.
But they do. Many rituals refer to a 'target' (or sometimes a zone), etc. In such circumstances, I expect most DM's will use the standard rules for say, targets and zones as guidelines (even though the target and zone rules were written for powers).
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