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8 months ago ::
Nov 04, 2012 - 2:28AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2008
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3.5 SRD: (Magic Weapon Spell): " Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon’s +1 bonus on attack rolls.)"
(Magic Vestment Spell): "You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level)."
(Enhancement Bonus): " An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon"
(Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons): " Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points."
So, my question is, if I "buff" my weapons and shield before a fight with that sleazy sundering blackguard with such enhancing spells, can I claim the temporary item hardness and hit points, too?
Neue
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8 months ago ::
Nov 04, 2012 - 2:52AM
#2
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I would presume so, yes.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 04, 2012 - 7:01AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2006
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I agree. If you have the enhancement bonus, you should have everything that goes with it.
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Magical fairy princesses (i.e. all fairy princesses) have the pleasant situation of not needing to choose, unless they're rebellious teen emo fairy princesses.~ Slagger_the_Chuul, Gleemax
So you can have the basic stats of full plate armor in an iron loincloth or steel bikini?
If you were playing Jeopardy, you'd get points for that.~ StevenO & Tempest_Stormwind, Gleemax
The monkey "yells" at the Dwarf, (high pitched monkey sounds) and turns to look at the Cleric to talk in common and says...
*deep Barry White type voice. "Ah yea. Here ya go"~ BuddhaKai, Gleemax
One could, I guess, take the view that part of the spell is simply persuading physics to sit down and shut up~ Ocarina_Guy, Gleemax
So what happens if you automatically fail an automatic success?
Inception.~ Kamanchu & MrDayKwan, Gleemax
Jafonel, that is absolutely my favorite misreading of RAW EVER. ~tsuyoshikentsu, Gleemax
You know the best part? These are four-foot-tall creatures that can conjure hammers from nowhere. They are CHIBIS!!!! ~tsuyoshikentsu, Gleemax
Hmm. And here I thought that a whip was an implement of torture and a sword was an implement of killing... ~skydragonknight, Gleemax
I'm a little behind on this, but wouldn't letting the ability (to) create a Ruby Rod open up a whole can of worms with people claiming that means they can also create a Corbin Dallas? ~Kilroo, Gleemax
wow - we accidently went by the rules when the barbarian took of(f) someones arm on purpose.... ~Tetsuoh, Gleemax
Guys, it's obviously a trick question. No one plays a CN rogue unless they want to commit Evil acts and get away with it. :P ~herrdoktor, Gleemax
This ain't the real world. This is gosh darn Dungeons and Friken Dragons! ~Arcanist, GiantitP
just so I can have the glee of, when one of the PCs gets angry and yells "WHY WON'T YOU DIE" I can respond "I would prefer not to." ~Deth Muncher, GiantitP
If sleeping with Tieflings is "Tapping into Evil power" (if ya know what I mean), that is also an Evil Act according to BoVD, and would make a Paladin fall accordingly. ~Slipperychicken, GiantitP
So we have a real world basis for it to rain cattle ~MrCustomer, Gleemax
You both make point so good, you could stab someone with them. ~Immabozo, GiantitP
Given how gravity works differently for jumping, falling, stalling, and reverse gravity, we can conclusively say that D&D physics are powered by ACME Corp. ~Flickerdart, GiantitP
In D&D, I'm pretty sure the square-cube law merely describes how cubes are to be drawn on battle mats. ~Cog, GiantitP
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8 months ago ::
Nov 04, 2012 - 7:52AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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3.5
SRD:
(Magic Weapon Spell): "Magic weapon gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. (An enhancement bonus does not stack with a masterwork weapon’s +1 bonus on attack rolls.)"
(Magic Vestment Spell): "You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level)."
(Enhancement Bonus): "An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon"
(Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons): "Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points."
So, my question is, if I "buff" my weapons and shield before a fight with that sleazy sundering blackguard with such enhancing spells, can I claim the temporary item hardness and hit points, too?
Neue
i think yes because while the spell work your wepon become a magical weapon +X and the rules say that the magic weapon/armor have better HP hardness and save that the mundane weapons.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 04, 2012 - 8:21AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2011
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Nothing there says anything about temporary enhancement bonuses not granting the increased stats to the weapon/armor, so I'd say that, until the spell ends, the weapon/armor are protected (just like a regular magical item).
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8 months ago ::
Nov 04, 2012 - 10:47AM
#6
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I think we are in agreement that your temporary enhancement bonus provided by the spells will also improve the item's hitpoint and hardness while they are in effect.
Of course the improved Hardness may be the most important thing as it can PREVENT damage from happening. I say this is the most important thing because once the effect ends I would say the item will also lose any hitpoints the enhancement provided (think of it as a CON boost for your item) and thus the item could then fall apart if it had taken any damage. The magic may have held the item together during the fight but when it ends the "glue" also ends.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 05, 2012 - 8:24AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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I think we are in agreement that your temporary enhancement bonus provided by the spells will also improve the item's hitpoint and hardness while they are in effect.
Of course the improved Hardness may be the most important thing as it can PREVENT damage from happening. I say this is the most important thing because once the effect ends I would say the item will also lose any hitpoints the enhancement provided (think of it as a CON boost for your item) and thus the item could then fall apart if it had taken any damage. The magic may have held the item together during the fight but when it ends the "glue" also ends.
but the item is a object with no CON, this will be temporal HP and then is the first in going and then at the end of the spell the weapon are in the same HP
you say that is equal that a barbarian with rage while i saying that is like a undead with Psionic vigor.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 05, 2012 - 9:29AM
#8
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I think you just said something which was supposed to mean exactly the same as what has just been said...
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8 months ago ::
Nov 05, 2012 - 11:13AM
#9
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I think you just said something which was supposed to mean exactly the same as what has just been said...
No Fred, Oma012 is basically saying the exact opposite of what I'm saying. While I realize objects do NOT have CON scores I'm saying that when your magically enhanced item gets the crap beat out of it (although the higher hardness prevents a lot of damage) it may just fall apart when the magic that was holding it together ends. Oma is saying that in that same situation the item could still be in pristine condition once the magic ends despite taking damage.
Let's say you start with a heavy mace (hardness 10, hp 20) then get a high level cleric to cast Greater Magic Weapon on it giving it a +4 enhancement bonus (+8 hardness, +40 hp) giving in a net hardness 18 and 60 hp while the enchancement is active. The guy wielding this weapon then encounters that sleezy, sunder happy Blackguard and his +2 Adamantine Greatsword. We'll say damage is 2d6+6 (13) for this example. Now the Blackguard's weapon usually makes very short work of any weapon the opponent may wield (ignores hardness <20 and many items only have 5 or 10 hp as a base) but here that heavy mace is going to be a major challenge to Sunder. After the Blackguard lands three hits on the mace (39 damage) he finally gives up on trying (one more hit wouldn't do it either in this example) and the combat ends normally. As the battle ends the magically enhanced heavy mace is down to 21 hitpoint after getting beat up badly but the adamantine greatsword. What happens with the Greater Magic Weapon spell ends is where Oma and I strongly disagree:
Me: The mace as 39 points of damage done to it and is at 21 hp. With the enchantment up it can have 60 hp but when the spell ends it "gives back" the +40 hp which drops the item below zero hitpoints and the mace finally falls apart due to the damage it took during the battle.
Oma: The mace has 21 hit point after taking 39 damage from its magically enhanced 60 hitpoints. The spell ends and the extra hardness goes away (this happens in mine as well but I left it out) as does the one hitpoint above normal that the mace gained. The mace is still good as new despite being smacked three times by the adamantine greatsword.
The difference between these two scenarios is huge and should be obvious. I'll say enhancement boost hitpoints for the item just like an increased CON score would boost a character's hitpoint. Oma says the enhancement gives the item temporary hitpoints which are lost first before the actual item is affected. One MAJOR problem with Oma's thought is that if an enhancement bonus just give temporary hitpoints to the item then any damage a permanent magic item takes can NOT be repaired unless it only increases the item's hitpoint to its base level. This means that if a +4 Heavy Mace was used in the previous example it can NOT be repaired using Oma's idea of what the enhancement hitpoints means but under my idea it can be repaired back up to the 60 hitpoints it has when perfectly good.
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8 months ago ::
Nov 05, 2012 - 11:55AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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I think you just said something which was supposed to mean exactly the same as what has just been said...
No Fred, Oma012 is basically saying the exact opposite of what I'm saying. While I realize objects do NOT have CON scores I'm saying that when your magically enhanced item gets the crap beat out of it (although the higher hardness prevents a lot of damage) it may just fall apart when the magic that was holding it together ends. Oma is saying that in that same situation the item could still be in pristine condition once the magic ends despite taking damage.
Let's say you start with a heavy mace (hardness 10, hp 20) then get a high level cleric to cast Greater Magic Weapon on it giving it a +4 enhancement bonus (+8 hardness, +40 hp) giving in a net hardness 18 and 60 hp while the enchancement is active. The guy wielding this weapon then encounters that sleezy, sunder happy Blackguard and his +2 Adamantine Greatsword. We'll say damage is 2d6+6 (13) for this example. Now the Blackguard's weapon usually makes very short work of any weapon the opponent may wield (ignores hardness ..."" have="" 5="" or="" 10="" hp="" as="" a="" base="" but="" here="" that="" heavy="" mace="" is="" going="" to="" be="" major="" challenge="" sunder="" after="" the="" blackguard="" lands="" three="" hits="" on="" 39="" damage="" he="" finally="" gives="" up="" trying="" one="" more="" hit="" wouldn="" t="" do="" it="" either="" in="" this="" example="" combat="" ends="" normally="" battle="" magically="" enhanced="" down="" 21="" hitpoint="" getting="" beat="" badly="" adamantine="" greatsword="" what="" happens="" with="" greater="" magic="" weapon="" spell="" where="" oma="" i="" strongly="" disagree:="" br="">
Me: The mace as 39 points of damage done to it and is at 21 hp. With the enchantment up it can have 60 hp but when the spell ends it "gives back" the +40 hp which drops the item below zero hitpoints and the mace finally falls apart due to the damage it took during the battle.
Oma: The mace has 21 hit point after taking 39 damage from its magically enhanced 60 hitpoints. The spell ends and the extra hardness goes away (this happens in mine as well but I left it out) as does the one hitpoint above normal that the mace gained. The mace is still good as new despite being smacked three times by the adamantine greatsword.
The difference between these two scenarios is huge and should be obvious. I'll say enhancement boost hitpoints for the item just like an increased CON score would boost a character's hitpoint. Oma says the enhancement gives the item temporary hitpoints which are lost first before the actual item is affected. One MAJOR problem with Oma's thought is that if an enhancement bonus just give temporary hitpoints to the item then any damage a permanent magic item takes can NOT be repaired unless it only increases the item's hitpoint to its base level. This means that if a +4 Heavy Mace was used in the previous example it can NOT be repaired using Oma's idea of what the enhancement hitpoints means but under my idea it can be repaired back up to the 60 hitpoints it has when perfectly good.
but is the same logic with a undead with psionic vigor
the unded maybe have 123 hp but with the psionic vigor he can gain another 110 temporal hit points then he fight agan a barbarian that hit him for 100 damages (a very powerfull strike ) then the undead stay in 133 hps and in her turn he kill the barbarian with a power and the combat end then at the end of the psionic vigor power the undead hp still are 123 HP despite the powerful strike he was taken time ago, he was beaten for 100 damage but the undead are unharmed and at her full HP
is the same with the weapon maybe was beaten but only the magic force that involves the weapon was damaged and maybe the weapon have littles dents that do not count as damage
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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