As others have said, there's a lot of critical information missing here.
Were the players aware that the flood could happen and what steps they could take to prevent it? If not, it's a step towards "bad," as it essentially becomes the equivalent of "YOU GUYS LOSE ALL THIS STUFF BECAUSE I SAID SO!" with a fancy ribbon.
Were your players aware that this was going to be "hardcore" D&D? If not, it's not necessarily "bad," but something you probably should have mentioned.
Does the necromancer gleefully curbstomp the players in what is essentially an hour long session of the players playing with some plastic cubes while they watch you masturbate? A large part of proper DMing is presentation. Having unwinnable fights can work as a plot point if not leaned on too heavily, but then they should be a narraqtive event rather than a fight.
Zammm = Batman. Bronies unite. "I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room." It's my sig in a boxShow
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other BarryShow
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...
Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.
And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
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...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.
And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.
He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
As others have said, this comes down to "Know Your Players". I feel that this is the most important rule for DMs to follow. No one knows your players better than you, so you are the best one to answer your own question.
Do your players hate having control taken away from them? If so, they will not like this quest at all. Do your players hate having their stuff taken away? If so, they will not like this quest. Do your players hate high chance of TPK? If so, they will not like this quest.
On the other hand, if your players thrive on such things, they will think your quest is one of the greatest you have ever done.
I know that my own group is split. I know one of them couldn't care less about those things as long as she still got to kill monsters. And one of them hates things like this with a fury. The others are somewhere in the middle, so it could go either way. Because of the one player who would hate it, I wouldn't use such a plot in my own group.
But that is my group. As I said, what matters is YOUR group. If you aren't sure, talk to them. Don't give any specifics, just ask questions like I asked above, and see what they say. Ask each player individually, as you will get more accurate responses.
It isn't possible to tell in abstract if this is good or bad, most campaign events being good/bad is campaign dependent. The characters simply losing a lot of valuable gear would be bad for a light hearted campaign, but your obviously aiming for something at least a bit grittier. I would say that if this sort of event which strips the party of most of their gear and forces them into a deadly adventure happens on a regular basis in your campaign, then yes, your probably doing something wrong.
Personal items such as arms, armor, magic items, and spell books must make a saving throw to be held onto as the party swims for its life. One item per player is allowed an automatic save.
This could be bad depending on the party make up. Taking gear from the party hits different characters to different degrees. How much and which characters depends on which version of D&D your using. Problems of this type are fine in short bits but shouldn't happen in long adventures unless carefully designed into the adventure. In addition, if there is a unbalanced distribution of hard to replace items, this could punish some characters more then others.
I don't know if either problem will hit your party, or if they will be bad enough to be a problem. However, purely as a mechanical element, that is something that should be a concern when designing the adventure.
In my world there can be a great flood, one of biblical proportion. The water rises hundreds of feet in a matter of hours; the newly created sea is dark and stormy. Anything stored in one of the towns that is now underwater is lost and any mounts or pack animals will probably not survive. Personal items such as arms, armor, magic items, and spell books must make a saving throw to be held onto as the party swims for its life. One item per player is allowed an automatic save.
The party must swim towards the only light they can see. This turns out to be a wizard’s tower inhabited a necromancer and his evil colleagues. This adventure is meant to be tough and scary. The players are meant to feel that they may not make it out of this one. And in truth the potential for a TPK is present.
The great flood opens chapter 2 or 3 of the campaign and isn’t always triggered. Up until this point the party has had some hard fights but they have always prevailed and have had the opportunity to go back and wreak vengeance upon some earlier adversaries. The why and how of the flood is the next overarching plot hook in the game.
This isn’t exactly a candyland fun night of gaming. It is challenging and it is part of the story that the players are creating.
Is this an example of good DM’ing or bad?
As always thanks to everyone in advance for your time and help.
As others have said, it is not possible to judge it without knowing the rest of the campaign, and much is a question of preference..
Still, if I would comment on this from my perspective using only this info:
The great flood - That they lose most of their items before coming to the necro tower, its this the only purpose with the flood? If so, it could be done in a better way. As a rule of thumb, give the players the impression of having a choice in every situation, especially in situations where you rob them of stuff. They dont have to have a real choice, but they should believe that they do.
Also.. drenching the whole world is quite drastic.. what about their character backgrounds? How will those characters feel when most of the people they know, have met, and love are dead? That kind of thing can mess things up seriously if not taken in account (depending on the type of players). Also how do the necromancer and his cronies feel about being isolated in a tower in the middle of a sea?
As an example, if the point is that they are to face the necromancer without magical gear this could be done in some other way that presents them with more of a choice and that does not permanently rob them of their hard won stuff.
Example 1 - the Orb of Negation. The Necro-guy is rumoured and feared for having this magical item, the Orb of Negation. With it he can dispell magical items and effects. If someone goes up against him, they better be prepared to have some items destroyed. This gives the players the choice of leaving treasured stuff at home before attacking the necromancer, or to bring stuff and risk it. Either way the players will fight the necromancer in a weakened state, and if some player loses a treasured item, well.. he made the choice, not you.
Example 2 - The Shipwreck. Instead of a world spanning flood, put the players on a sea voyage. The ship springs a leak or is smashed by a storm. Let the players escape with all their gear in two small boats (with or without other surviors, your choice). Now, soon after they get into the boat, the boats are attacked by mer-people, kuo-toas or some other waterdwelling humanoid of an appropriate danger level, in truth, they were behind sinking the ship! In the fight that ensues, let the players partially drive them off so they can escape, but let one of the boats be damaged in the fight. It will sink. The boat the players are in can only take so much weight (the players + the weight of gear you want them to keep). Now the players will have to make a choice between what stuff to bring and what to discard if they want to live. What they choose is their choice. A bonus in this scenario is... make the necromancer a leader of the kuo-toa or mer-people or whatever. The players who escape in their boat ends up at their island stronghold and must fight the necromancer. After the necromancer and the mer-people are defeated, they find that the plunder from all the ships they have sunk are stored in their lair, and here they can retrieve all or some of their abandoned items (which was plucked up from the bottom along with the rest of the stuff from the sinking ship). In this scenario they also have a big reason for wanting some payback at the necromancer.
Example 3 - The Flood - The players learn beforehand that there will be a world changing massive divinely inspired flood. Now, what will they do with this information, who and what will they save? Time is limited and building a Noahs-ark might be out of question (and a really bad choice on what to save). Now, they will lose somes stuff, the world will end as anyone knows it, but at least the players had a choice and there is quite some room for some intense adventures and good roleplaying (Who knows and who willl they tell? Will it cause a massive widespread panic? People everywhere will suddenly treasure ships more than kingdoms. What will other powerful people in the world do? Will some people just lose it and go rampage as they are going to die anyways?)
TPK - Just like with taking stuff away. When players are faced with really serious danger, I feel it is best to give them a way out, a choice of some kind, and make sure that they understand the danger they are in.
For instance, in the necromancers tower, make them realise that they are up against really dangerous foes. But instead of desiring to kill the players outright, the necromancer initially wants to capture them as slaves and put to work along with the rest of his slave horde digging in the basement or something. Now, they can surrender, leave the rest of their gear and do a 'instigate slave revolt or undermine the necromancer in secret' kind of adventure, with less direct danger, or they can go head on and fight their way through. If they select the hard option, well, they made the choice, not you.
Also.. drenching the whole world is quite drastic.. what about their character backgrounds? How will those characters feel when most of the people they know, have met, and love are dead? That kind of thing can mess things up seriously if not taken in account (depending on the type of players).
I think that, more than the railroading and loss of items, is the real problem here: the pacing of this campaign. In Chapter 2, the world is flooded. And I'm assuming the party is not at double-digit levels yet. Whether or not the party survives this, the entire focus of this campaign will revolve around this catastrophe, so I hope that it was for a better reason than "I need to get the players to this dungeon and keep them there."
I mean, how do you top this? Is the campaign going to revolve around the politics of merfolk and sahuagin, or are the players going to leave for another plane of existence? You've scorched the earth and made everything the PCs have done before this unnecessary: any lives saved or treasures found are lost or worthless.
'I have had players complain about having extra rares in a pack. I’ve had players complain about getting free things. I have had players complain because they liked something “too much”.' - Mark Rosewater's Twitter, May 7th, 2013
if any one of your players at any time says something like "well i think its time to wrap this up" you are bad dm*
if its 4 am and you're still playing and you didn't even know it was 4 am, you are a good dm
*the exceptions are if its a new player who just isn't into it or a player who is a consistent malcontent
I'm kind of offended by this post :P Being a somewhat older gamer (Late 20s) I have friends with jobs and kids. No matter which of us is DMing there's always someone going "Bout time we wrap this up" just for times sake. Not everyone can afford to get lost in DnD until 4 am, and making it seem like that's the norm or you are a bad DM is really...offensive.
Only 75 or 80% of the world is flooded. The campaign started high in the mountains, those towns are still there. In actuality the flood and the countless deaths caused by it should not have much of an impact on the PC's. Although I like the loss of loved ones angle, could be good bait for the "figure out the flood" hook. The necro's tower is the beginning of the mountain range, although its dark and stormy and the group is low on supplies they could choose to ignore the interior of the tower and begin to trek inland towards their home base. I'm comfortable enough sand boxing that the PC's shouldn't feel forced into anything. Well excepting natural disasters =-) and future history events, they are stuck dealing with those things, but how they deal is entirely up to them. The purpose of the flood is to let the players know that this world is not solid, nothing is guaranteed. The loss of gear is only to make room for the more powerful items that will surface in chapter 2. As for how I'm going to top flooding the world, that’s something I'm going to keep to myself =-)
I’m very happy that this didn’t turn into a DM roast. The responses were all in line with what I would expect. Which means that D&D players haven’t changed as much as the edition wars might lead one to believe.
Thanks to everyone for the honest and good natured feedback.
you loads
