Community

It should be a maneuver, not a feature.

I know this may sound like a fighters can't have nice things thread but most of you know I am one of the strongest proponents for interesting fighters.

This ability is not interesting. It slows down the game and is is terrible for the games math. Once the fighter gets this ability his damage jumps significantly but other players damage has no such jump and monsters do not have a jump in HP. This breaks any hope for clean math in the system.

If there is any lesson to learn from 4e it is how broken multiple attacks can be. Staking static damage quickly builds up. Later 4e attacks learned this lesson and simply granted an extra attack roll and allows players to choose either result. If both rolls hit the attack often did extra damage.

Using that same model we should turn the extra attack into a rapid strike maneuver. This would allow the fighter to spend expertise dice (2 or so) to roll an extra d20. If either roll hits the attack hits, if both hit the attack does + 1[W] damage. This will help speed up the game and keep math steady as well. This also works better with D&Ds abstract combat. As soon as you make an ability that grants extra attacks, visualization and logic break down. Instead of fluid combat with many parries and thrusts per attack roll, players visualize 1 roll 1 swing. This would also make the ability more interesting as the player would have to choose whether or not to utilize the rapid strike maneuver. Choices are often more fun than non choices.

Yes this will reduce fighter damage, but numbers are still not final. Extra attacks for free though are bad for the systems math as a whole though.

I think 3 maneuvers at level 1. A maneuver at every odd level. A skill trick every even level.

Skill tricks could be similar to 4e skill and utility powers. No direct combat benefits but interesting abilities none the less. Charming people with a diplomacy check, causing fear with intimidation, lifting objects way too heavy for a normal person to lift, leaping great distances, etc.

As an aside I don't like expertise "dice".  I would rather they were expertise points. You start with 1 and gain an additional every 3 levels (4,7,10, etc). You spend the points for various maneuvers.

Deadly strike: +1[W] per point spent.

Heroic Effort: +1 bonus to trained skill roll per point spent.

Tumble: Move 1 + 1 per point spent as a move action. Can move through enemies spaces during this movement and don't provoke opportunity attacks.

Parry: Reaction to make an attack roll and use as AC. Costs 1 point.

Etc. 

Having dice make rolling damage feel awkward and makes everything have to be based on rolling. Having points is a lot cleaner and easier to use. It also helps the math scale better and gives an incentive to use 2H weapons.

I think the idea of consistency is a little better, though spreading out a class' power among the first 4-6 levels is good to encourange less 1 level dipping when multiclassing comes in (unless they have a solution to that).

I think the fighter starting with Deadly Strike + a choice maneuver works since they get another one as soon as they level...then again even if you front loaded to 3 maneuvers it wouldn't be that helpful since you  would need the ED (a pretty good system to keep 1 dip fighters from being ultra strong actually).

It would be nice if they developed a balance between Fighter and Rogue to give fighters more combat power with some "out of combat" power and did stuff for the rogue opposite. So even levels give fighters another maneuver, odd levels give them something else. Perhaps extend this to other classes to there is that feel of steady progression, but make the thing they get more incremental so it's not overpowering but still interesting.

Maybe make advanced maneuvers that can only be accessed at 6th, 12th, and 18th level for fighters that are much better than the others but have some kind of limiting factor to them? Perhaps like extra attack, smash (knockdown added to a regular attack), etc.

Just adding a level that adds a HUGE power increase (double) to a class kind of makes weird things happen: like Fighter 6/Paladin X/ Rogue 1 (cuz 1 level of rogue is enough) etc. So i'd wager to say putting one huge ability at a level doesn't help much, and it hsould be mitigated by extending the bonus or forcing the use of ED so more levels in fighter is always attractive for the extra ED.

Nov 1, 2012 -- 11:37AM, Lawolf wrote:

As an aside I don't like expertise "dice". I would rather they were expertise points. You start with 1 and gain an additional every 3 levels (4,7,10, etc). You spend the points for various maneuvers. Deadly strike: +1[W] per point spent. Heroic Effort: +1 bonus to trained skill roll per point spent. Tumble: Move 1 + 1 per point spent as a move action. Can move through enemies spaces during this movement and don't provoke opportunity attacks. Parry: Reaction to make an attack roll and use as AC. Costs 1 point. Etc. Having dice make rolling damage feel awkward and makes everything have to be based on rolling. Having points is a lot cleaner and easier to use. It also helps the math scale better and gives an incentive to use 2H weapons.

It's actually the same thing if you think about it. The only difference is now you don't have to specifiy which size Die to use for certain things, and Deadly Strike isn't OP by doing X weapon damage.