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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 5:40AM
#1
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Okay so as I understand it, you regain your Expertise Dice everyone round.
This means a 10th level rogue will be adding 3d10 (so likely 7-8) to every single time he uses a trained skill... so likely every single trap he disables, every door he unlocks, ervery pocket he picks.... is there -ever- a chance of failure with such high odds?
Better yet, a dextrous rogue, will be hitting the neigh impossible DCs on a regular basis... not so neigh impossible anymore.
Don't you think this manouevre is a tad broken?
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 5:53AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Yes. I hope it gets toned down a little somehow.
Perhaps Skill Mastery could allow you to spend an expertise die to gain advantage on a check using a trained skill instead.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 6:02AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 18, 2010
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You do know that it only adds the highest die roll. so even if you roll 3d10 you only take the highest one. This will still equate to a lower average.
This still doesnt stop you rolling a low number it just adds it to the check, thus if you had a stealth check +4 dex +3 trained + 5 (average) skill mastery this is only +12 bounus, which might look alot but you reach this bonus at first level in 4e, you can still fail a Dc 20 -25 easily.
Also while in combat you may need the ED to do other maneuvers so, would you spend that many die on one skill check, its unlikely.
You also must take into account the higher level the harder the DC so even a specilaised rouge could fail to hit the higher DC's.
The rouge is leaning alot more towards the skill monkey area in this playtest, and only time will tell if it is overpowered or usefull.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 6:14AM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Or Skill Mastery could be a feature letting Rogue improve 2 trained skills instead of one every other levels ? Or alternatively improve 1 trained skill at every level instead of every other level.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 6:43AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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Could the rogue decide to roll 1 expertise die...if he rolls a low roll and does not succeed...can he then decide to use another? This could add some tension to the game.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 6:52AM
#6
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When you are rolling 3d10, chances are you will get atleast around an 8 on the result. Adding 8, plus 3+ skill training, plus dex modfier... means you will almost always score over 20 DC on trained skill checks, kind of takes the suspense out of disarming traps in my opinion.
It works at low levels (1d4), but as you get more and higher expertise dice, it gets out of hand.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 7:38AM
#7
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Yes Slygamer, you're correct. As is, Skill Mastery is even more broken than it was in the previous playtest packet. The high-level Rogue will beat impossible DCs on every try, and there will be no use for the other characters to even try to contribute. So much for "bounded accuracy" and "everybody gets to help somehow"...
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 11:53AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2008
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You do know that it only adds the highest die roll. so even if you roll 3d10 you only take the highest one. This will still equate to a lower average.
This still doesnt stop you rolling a low number it just adds it to the check, thus if you had a stealth check +4 dex +3 trained + 5 (average) skill mastery this is only +12 bounus, which might look alot but you reach this bonus at first level in 4e, you can still fail a Dc 20 -25 easily.
Also while in combat you may need the ED to do other maneuvers so, would you spend that many die on one skill check, its unlikely.
You also must take into account the higher level the harder the DC so even a specilaised rouge could fail to hit the higher DC's.
The rouge is leaning alot more towards the skill monkey area in this playtest, and only time will tell if it is overpowered or usefull.
The problem with this line of thinkning is that it assumes we will commonly see DC's of 20 or higher. When I was complaining about limited skill selection a few packets ago I was told that most DC's are within range for an untrained PC to reach. That means all but the most difficult tasks would probably fall 20 or lower, since they assume +5 for a highly talented but untrained PC. Add skill training and most people's highest possible bonus is +8. A 10th level rogue has a range of +9 to +18 on a skill check using their best stat. Can we honestly say that we can challenge a player who has a bonus of +8 the same as a player who can achieve a bonus of +13 without trying? If we need DC's of 23 for it to be only an average challenge to one player, then difficult tasks jump to DC 30 or higher, unreachable by any other character.
It'd be similiar to saying fighters get plate armor and greatswords at level1, everybody else fights with a dagger for the entire game. Have fun 
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 1:15PM
#9
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The current Skill Mastery pretty much breaks the whole point behind bounded accuracy.
So does Iron Will, Great Fortitude and Lightning Reflexes... anytime you get caught doing a save out of combat, obviously you will add all your expertise dice, therefore +11 to str/con saves as a 10th level fighter with great fortitude and 16 con... its too high.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 2:06PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 15, 2001
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Yes Rogues are broken outside combat and crap inside combat.
Reducing a character to a list of dice rolls and modifiers is not role playing*
*pg 30, AD&D 2nd Ed DMG, 1989.
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