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It's really coming together except, Wow!, I do not like the Rogue design now at all.  Here's the thing:

It might arguably mechanically represent what we want the rogue to be good at, but in this incarnation, it doesn't have anything that is mechanically unique to playing a rogue.  

I would argue that the four core classes should each have their own core mechanics.  Other classes can then do riffs and twists on these core mechanics.  For example Paladins might uses the fighter's expertise dice, and Sorcerers might use Wizard style vancian spell slots.  But the Big Four should each have a unique mechanic design that frames what they do best.  

For the Fighter, Expertise & Maneuvers are a slam dunk, as long as you keep those things unique to the fighter.  For the Wizard vancian spell slots.  For the cleric, its the ability to heal first, but there is also a nice mechanical destinction in the fact that they can cast different spells on the fly, and these domains are great. Incidentally, I am a huge fan of the Deity Archetypes design - Fantastic.  So I am giving a big thumbs up to the current Fighter, Wizard, and Cleric designs...  

For the rogue the goal is Skill expert and a more opportunistic approach to combat.  The problem is that every other class needs access to skills.  So it’s hard to make being better at skills feel truly mechanically unique to the rogue - but not impossible.  I think being able to use skills in more fundamental ways - for example without disadvantage in combat is better / more iconic / simpler than using expertise dice.  But the Rogue has also always had a different fighting style than the fighter.  It’s what you called being a "Striker" in 4th edition.  Sneak Attack could be better or broader but it is still the best D&D mechanic so far to express in general terms that situationally a Rogue can be more deadly in combat than a fighter, but needs to set up a situational advantage.

Expertise Dice and Maneuver mechanics are better if they more specifically represent the training only a fighter has from focusing on combat first (not skills).  Giving the rogue expertise dice, does two very bad things.  First, it takes the great new mechanic formerly unique to the fighter and gives it to some one else.  Expertise is a great design that solved the problem of representing a Fighter's combat training and versatility.  I love the elegant Maneuver design in this packet - but only for the fighter.  You took the fighter's shiny toy and immediately made them share.  That's no fun.  Second, this makes the rogue feel like a second class fighter in combat.

To use a Magic the Gathering buzzword, Sneak Attack is "strictly worse" than Deadly Accuracy.  That Stinks!  In magic card A is "strictly worse" than card B if there are absolutely no situations in which you would rather draw card A than card B.  Well, there are no situations in which you would rather have the Sneak Attack maneuver than the Deadly Accuracy maneuver.  Now, when the Rogue painstakingly sneaks through the sleeping goblin camp to deliver his killing blow to the chief, the fighter simply shrugs and walks right up to him and does the same thing without all the fuss.  

Why then, in the world these two central mechanics represent, would any character choose sneaking over swordplay?

You need at least one or two mechanics that make the other party members say, “good thing we brought the Rogue.”  The burglar, sneak, trickster, spy, assassin, ruffian, scoundrel archetype deserves it’s own special thing.  I believe that means back to the drawing board on this Rogue.

Oct 31, 2012 -- 8:55AM, TopCheese wrote:

Expertise dice for the Rogue is a good option I think. However I think sneak attack needs to be tweaked. Perhaps... Something like this... At level 1, 6, and 9 you gain an adittional ability when using sneak attack. Roll any dice and reroll all 1s and 2s also you gain an additional effect to the enemy (no save). A: Slowed: Creature's speed becomes 2 for a number of rounds equal to the ammount of Expertise Dice used. B: Blinded: The creature is blinded for a number of rounds equal to the ammount of dice used. C: Weakened: The creature's dmg roll is minimized for a number of rounds equal to the number of expertise dice used.

Good idea.

D: Quieted. The creature cannot speak louder than a croaking whisper for a number of rounds equal to the number of Expertise Dice used. (This so the guard who isn't killed can't yell out the alarm)