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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 4:25PM
#1
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Say a character has the Artificer "Resistive Formula Infusion" on him:
"The target can end the [Infusion] as a free action to gain temporary hit points..."
Say that character is attacked, the attacker rolls to hit, hits and then rolls for damage against the character.
What is the latest point in that sequence that the character can end the infusion so that the temp hit points abosorb some or all the damage taken from that attack?
Can I wait until after the damage roll?
For example:
DM: The troll hits you.
DM: The troll rolls 27 damage.
Player: I end my infusion getting 20 temporary hit points so I only took 7 hit points of damage.
Can I do that?
Thanks ahead of time for the replies.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 4:55PM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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If free action can interrupt an attack ? Some people will tell you yes some people will tell you no so YMMV ask your DM. RAW the Rules on Free actions don't specifically say yes or no. RAI the developpers specifically say no in a podcast. Spoiler:
Show
Here's a transcription of the 4/6/2012 podcast (15 minutes in):
From the DDI Mailbag: Just how free are free actions… specifically the free action power of the Dwarven Armor daily power?(reference Dwarven armor daily power). When a wearer is hit, can he use free action between the attack roll and damage roll?
Mike Mearls: I believe that free actions can't take place in between things like attack roll and damage roll.
Jeremy Crawford: what you're getting at Mike is that in this case he could not use the power in between those two things because the power doesn't have a trigger. Basically the only powers in the game that can mess around with timing are powers with triggers, and then those triggers tell you when you get to break a rule. Because it doesn't say that, you have to use this as a discrete action; not interrupting other actions.
Mike: So it can't take place in the middle of another action.
Jeremy: Exactly.
Rodney Thompson: That may be true specifically for this action because it's the wearer using it between the phases of another character’s actions, but how does that account for the warden? We've said in the past that at any point during a move you can use a free action to mark and then continue that move.
Jeremy: That’s really a DM's call because the default assumption of the system is that the warden has to do it before the move action or at the end of it. Actions don't divide each other up (later) in my campaign I have a Warden and I let him do exactly what you describe: he can interrupt himself. It’s just that by the rules: we're breaking the rules. But this is what D&D is about. (later) Early on in the process we didn't have a concept of no action. If we were going to do this power now, it wouldn't be a free action.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 5:03PM
#3
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If free action can interrupt an attack ?
Some people will tell you yes some people will tell you no so YMMV ask your DM.
RAW the Rules on Free actions don't specifically say yes or no.
RAI the developpers specifically say no in a podcast.
Spoiler:
Show
Here's a transcription of the 4/6/2012 podcast (15 minutes in):
From the DDI Mailbag: Just how free are free actions… specifically the free action power of the Dwarven Armor daily power?(reference Dwarven armor daily power). When a wearer is hit, can he use free action between the attack roll and damage roll?
Mike Mearls: I believe that free actions can't take place in between things like attack roll and damage roll.
Jeremy Crawford: what you're getting at Mike is that in this case he could not use the power in between those two things because the power doesn't have a trigger. Basically the only powers in the game that can mess around with timing are powers with triggers, and then those triggers tell you when you get to break a rule. Because it doesn't say that, you have to use this as a discrete action; not interrupting other actions.
Mike: So it can't take place in the middle of another action.
Jeremy: Exactly.
Rodney Thompson: That may be true specifically for this action because it's the wearer using it between the phases of another character’s actions, but how does that account for the warden? We've said in the past that at any point during a move you can use a free action to mark and then continue that move.
Jeremy: That’s really a DM's call because the default assumption of the system is that the warden has to do it before the move action or at the end of it. Actions don't divide each other up (later) in my campaign I have a Warden and I let him do exactly what you describe: he can interrupt himself. It’s just that by the rules: we're breaking the rules. But this is what D&D is about. (later) Early on in the process we didn't have a concept of no action. If we were going to do this power now, it wouldn't be a free action.
Plaguescarred,
Thank you very much for answering my question so quickly and cleanly
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 5:14PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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You're welcome Ickford
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 5:36PM
#5
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Plaguescarred,
Thank you very much for answering my question so quickly and cleanly
Don't be to quick to thank him.
RAI the developers who made that quote do not work on mechanics, they work on story. There are dozens of game elements that simply cease to function correctly if you can't take non-triggered free actions in the middle of other actions, and the rules say you can take free actions whenever you want. So he is wrong, both RAW and RAI.
Moderated by
Orc_Welfin
on Oct 31, 2012 - 02:30AM
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 8:18PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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RAW the Rules on Free actions don't specifically say yes or no.
Yes they do, and they say you can. Which is all that we need.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 8:22PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2003
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Actually, everything Plague said was true. Some people will tell you yes some people will tell you no so YMMV ask your DM.
RAW the Rules on Free actions don't specifically say yes or no.
RAI the developpers specifically say no in a podcast.
Yes, some people will say that free actions can interrupt attacks/actions.
Yes, the Rules on Free Actions don't specifically state that they can interrupt other actions (or attacks) Spoiler:
Show
Free actions take almost no time or effort. A creature can usually take as many free actions as it wants during any turn, including other creatures’ turns. Examples: Speaking a few sentences, dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed creature.
There is an exception to this rule: A creature can take a free action to use an attack power only once per turn. Creatures don’t normally have attack powers that can be used as free actions, but some powers and other effects grant the ability to use an attack power (usually a basic attack) as a free action. For instance, a character might have two different abilities that let him or her make a melee basic attack as a free action when their respective triggers occur. If both abilities are triggered on the same turn, the character can make only one of the melee basic attacks during that turn. This limitation does not apply to free actions that a creature is forced to take by an enemy.
In certain circumstances, the DM might decide to limit the use of free actions further. For instance, if an adventurer has already used free actions during a particular turn to talk, drop things, and use a class feature, the DM might rule that the adventurer can use no more free actions during that turn. And yes, Developers (regardless of trying to nitpick what department they may or may not work in) did say that free actions could not interrupt other actions.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
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7 months ago ::
Oct 30, 2012 - 9:48PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Yes, some people will say that free actions can interrupt attacks/actions.
Which isn't actually what is being discussed. You'll note I'm not one of those people, and yet still am telling Plague he's wrong. (With a note that free actions (at least triggered ones) absolutely can resolve within an action, just not within an attack. Your grouping of attacks/actions together, like they're the same thing, is incorrect.)
And Plague is wrong. The general rule on when you can use free actions applies - there is no rule preventing this rule from functioning, so it functions. That that rule is not satisfying enough for his tastes is irrelevant.
The discussion is not about the timing of free action resolutions. Though that is the next step in the discussion, it is not the step we're actually discussing.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 2:30AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2012
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I've removed content from this thread. Trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conductPlease remember to keep your posts polite, on topic and refrain from personal attacks. You are free to disagree with one another as long as it is done in a respectful manner.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 31, 2012 - 1:04PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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There are dozens of game elements that simply cease to function correctly if you can't take non-triggered free actions in the middle of other actions
Could you list some?
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