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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 10:23PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2005
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I have a question about the spell "Storm Pillar". I had an incident where a storm pillar was put out and a dominated creature walked around the pillar taking a multitude of damage. Now I don't really care about too many broken abilities but that seemed a bit much for an at will power. I read the wording on it, but I figured once a creature has taken damage once that round from it on its turn it was done taking damage. Then I realized the spell did not have the "wall" keyword so it does not apply. So I need a little bit more clarification on this.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 10:42PM
#2
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Wall keyword wouldn't matter, Walls don't have a rule that makes them one/turn either. Tons of Walls do iterative damage.
Storm Pillar can do a ton of damage, if you trigger it multiple times. Domination is a great way of doing that.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 12:57AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2010
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Wall keyword wouldn't matter
Theres no such thing as a 'Wall' keyword in a power. Theres a wall target line where you draw the effect on continuous squares but theres nothing that would specific make 'Wall' a tag like 'Psychic' or 'Rattling'. Closest thing would be conjuration but thats pretty general since wall conjurations always have details as to how they interact with the battlegrid.
Walls don't have a rule that makes them one/turn either. Tons of Walls do iterative damage.
And actually yes they do. In there infinite wisdom they finally recognized how broken a buncha stacked 'Wall' style powers can be so they layed a bunch of hard nerfs in the errata. They choose to do it on a power by power basis but basically any wall that does damage is suppose to have (a creature can take this damage only once per turn) tacked onto it.
Per www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateCompiled...
Really what he's getting on about is that the Storm Pillar is essentially a 1 square wall/conjuration and its easily abusable by players who DMs allow them to 'creatively interpretate the wording' rather then go by the intended spirit of the power. Its 'suppose' to be a deterant or an obstacle that is placed between the wizard and the enemies of choice. The murky way its worded leaves open the interpretation that every single square the enemy enters triggers its effect. If nothing else a wise DM might clarify the wording to include 'Willingly enters an adjacent square' to force an enemy choice to whether or not its worth taking the hit 3 times or whatever.
Essentially its another cheap way to abuse a short option list when the dimensions of an encounter don't allow a way 'around' the conjuration. This is the same sort of cheese that got walls nerfed.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 1:04AM
#4
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I was using "keyword" in a not strict sense, but true, technically Wall is not a keyword. But it still doesn't have any rules making them one/turn.
You're just flatly wrong. There is no general rule about one/turn damage. Anywhere. They changed a number of powers, but that is specific to those powers, not a general rule. Which was idiotic, for a variety of reasons, but that is another story.
If you have an opinion about what the rules ought to be, you're in the wrong forum. This is a forum for what the rules actually are. And, by the actual rules, the damage happens each square.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 1:14AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2010
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You're just flatly wrong. There is no general rule about one/turn damage. Anywhere. They changed a number of powers, but that is specific to those powers, not a general rule. Which was idiotic, for a variety of reasons, but that is another story.
I try to avoid being crude but I did link the errata. They changed 'every single power' that has damage and the words 'Wall' 'Barrier' and 'Cage' to include the supplement (a creature can take this damage only once per turn).
Its not a general rule true, and its a legal option as written, but much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 1:23AM
#6
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much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.
Let me help you out here. "Cheese" is a matter of opinion, not a fact. So calling something "cheese" is an expression of an opinion, not of a rule. So to say that a "cheese" detracts from the game is basically tantamount to saying "anything I personally dislike detracts from the game" which is a non-starter, everyone dislikes different things (and in many cases, people dislike things for reasons primarily based on an ignorance of the system math, so their dislike is purely irrational). Now this is the rules forum. We discuss rules here. Not opinions about the rules, not opinions about the game. If you want to do the latter, and it is obvious you do, I'd encourage you to post in a forum where it is a relevant topic of discusion.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 1:42AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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You're just flatly wrong. There is no general rule about one/turn damage. Anywhere. They changed a number of powers, but that is specific to those powers, not a general rule. Which was idiotic, for a variety of reasons, but that is another story.
I try to avoid being crude but I did link the errata. They changed 'every single power' that has damage and the words 'Wall' 'Barrier' and 'Cage' to include the supplement (a creature can take this damage only once per turn).
Its not a general rule true, and its a legal option as written, but much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.
Just for the record, no, they didn't change every single power, they missed quite a few.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 2:25AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2005
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much like every other type of cheese its cheap and detracts a bit from the spirit of the game.
Let me help you out here. "Cheese" is a matter of opinion, not a fact. So calling something "cheese" is an expression of an opinion, not of a rule. So to say that a "cheese" detracts from the game is basically tantamount to saying "anything I personally dislike detracts from the game" which is a non-starter, everyone dislikes different things (and in many cases, people dislike things for reasons primarily based on an ignorance of the system math, so their dislike is purely irrational). Now this is the rules forum. We discuss rules here. Not opinions about the rules, not opinions about the game. If you want to do the latter, and it is obvious you do, I'd encourage you to post in a forum where it is a relevant topic of discusion.
Not exactly, but I get your point. Alot of times WOTC will Erratta something because as you say the "Math" of the system is to much or an effect is very unbalancing. I have seen a power get downgarded for all the right reasons or all the wrong reasons. but its a matter of opinion. I was just curious about the spell because 87 points of damage was bit much for my liking for an at will to do in one turn on a monster. All because he walked by the pillar several times. I allowed it and didn't fuss about it. I just wanted a little bit more clarity that I wasn't overreacting. I want to make sure it wasn't a case of "Reading the rules and written" versus "Reading the Rules as Intended".
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 5:48AM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Basically Storm Pillar was updated to say it affect a target that move “on its turn” instead of “willingly” this to prevent Forced Movement. This result in Dominated target still taking damage by the Pillar when being ping-ponged in. Storm Pillar Page 101: In the third sentence of the Effect line, add “on its turn” after “adjacent to the pillar.” The intent is that the pillar provides a controlling effect on the battlefield, and this prevents it from being used in conjunction with forced movement to deal a disproportionate amount of damage.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 9:51AM
#10
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I have a question about the spell "Storm Pillar". I had an incident where a storm pillar was put out and a dominated creature walked around the pillar taking a multitude of damage. Now I don't really care about too many broken abilities but that seemed a bit much for an at will power. I read the wording on it, but I figured once a creature has taken damage once that round from it on its turn it was done taking damage. Then I realized the spell did not have the "wall" keyword so it does not apply. So I need a little bit more clarification on this.
It's not at-will. Dominate is very rare.
Unless your talking about storm-pillar. But that's really no difference then telling the dominated to jump off a cliff, or run past a group of people giving everyone an oppertunity attack. Or running though 5 or 6 different campfires.
Most "zones" and zone like things have been errated to only deal damage 1/turn.
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Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
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The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
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Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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