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Nov 3, 2012 -- 8:07AM, hup wrote:

It is free to create an account... if you want to use monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra, if you want to be able to store maps, characters, monsters you have to pay.

You cannot upload monsters so you either need to pay to use it or type monsters in by hand and no it doesn't store them unless - you guessed it you pay.

The only funny part is if you thought WotC were overcharging wait till you meet gametableonline

Let me make this abundantly clear for everyone reading this; hup here doesn't know what he's talking about.

I play several games weekly, and I DM my own weekly game. I'm also writing up the details for a new ongoing campaign. I have most of the available sets of tiles. I have all the tokens I wanted. I have character and adventure storage. And I got it all for just short of $10.

In fact, I could have gotten it all without paying a dime. However, I believe that GTO is more than deserving of my minor monetary support.

GTO has been fantastic to us. Before the VT was even released on their site, they had already improved it more than WotC had since its original release. They've added features that we've been wanting for years. They've fixed bugs and issues. They've been very responsive to our demands and feedback, reasonable or not. They've worked with us, directly, to improve the VT. We've had Rob Eng and one of their tech support people, CaptainColeslaw, show up on mibbit and talk to us a few times.

Seriously. If my finances allowed it right now, I would throw money at them. They're a small business and I don't think they're seeing that much income from the VT, they need our support.

So listen. Yes, they charge for some optional things like extra tilesets and tokens. But you'll notice I highlighted the keyword there. You don't have to pay a dime. I strongly encourage you to show them some support, however.

If you can't, that's alright. You can still play for free. Hell, you can even get some GTO Gold for free through the third-party daily offers they've got on their site, and get yourself a few tokens for your characters. Some of those offers are actually pretty interesting, like signing up for Netflix.

Nov 4, 2012 -- 9:02PM, hup wrote:

Hmm accused of lying and misleading? Certainly not my intent to mislead people so let me state it more clearly:

First the VTT was added to DDI *free* - it cost nothing. DDI existed before the VTT and exists after with not increase in cost to DDI subscribers. So cost to me was $0.00. I notice that you still have a DDI so you are not paying $70 per year for the VTT, you are paying for a DDI account. As pointed out with your DDI account was FREE access to the beta VTT.

 Yes, I have 3 months left on my account.  I originally signed up for 3 months, found myself immediately invited to the Friends and Family Beta test.  When my 3 months were up, I liked the VT so much, I resubscribed for a year.  When that year was up (earlier this year) I again resubbed for a year.  Now that wotc is no longer carrying the VT, I won't be resubscribing, as the tools left aren't worth their cost to me.

Yes you can create an account and run adventures for free - I clearly stated that last time but let me restate that just to be clear.

However if you want access to monsters above 2^nd level you need to pay extra. For those interested in full disclosure you can get all three monsters tiers currently on special for $18 or purchase single tiers for $8.70. I have never run a single game session only using 1^st and 2^nd level monster let alone a campaign – so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.

Again.  When the Beta was first started, there was no importable monster data.  As a DM, I had to click the "create new monster" button.  Enter all the stats from my book, or the Compendium.  I had to set the monster's AC, Defenses, HP, APs.  I had to type out every power, every attack roll, every damage roll.  If you use the Online table for free, you can run your games.  You have to manually create all your monsters, like we original Beta Testers had to do for nearly a year before they implemented the AT and monster importing.

Second I love the fact that they have chosen to put up more tiles. Again the cost (for the additional tiles – the original city, wilderness and dungeon sets are free) averages $4.50 for each tile set and $72 for all the current sets available. Note each set has an individual price ranging from $2.40 (Harrowing Halls) to $8.10 (Underdark).

Yes.  I ran games for over a year with just some of the dungeon tiles, and many substitutions and drawing.  Gamers can use their imaginations when you tell someone that a web square is really an altar.  More tiles are convenient, but not mandatory.

Note all costs are at the current rate of purchasing GTO gold, however you can purchase gold cheaper by buying in bulk and you can even get free gold by signing up to advertisers or simply watching commercials.

Now I have nothing against GameTableOnline trying to make some money, no doubt they had to purchase the software and the rights for the product from WotC. BUT I do resent having to pay for something that I already had for free OR if your assertion that you were paying for the VTT through DDI then paying for something I have already paid for.

Paying for the right to use tile sets I have already paid WotC for also feels like I am being charged twice.

Sorry if my opinion doesn’t match yours but they are definitely charging for something that was free, that is a simple fact.

They are charging for optional convienences.  For free, you get more than we original Beta Testers had, and we did just fine then.  I ran the first 3 arcs of the 4e Tomb of Horrors mega adventure with JUST dungeon tiles (because we didn't have wilderness or city at that time) and substitutions and drawing tools.  In the later stages of the VT Beta, we had monsters, but we had to deal without them for a long time.

We used to have Dungeon tiles, and some tokens.  Now, for free, you get Dungeon, Wilderness, and City tiles, and tokens, and level 1-2 monsters.  It's not actually that hard to copy a monster detail from the compendium, paste it to a new blank monster, and just create a few quick power entries.  But, for convenience I paid for the import access to all monsters.

For convenience, I paid for more tiles.   

Nov 4, 2012 -- 9:02PM, hup wrote:

 I have never run a single game session only using 1^st and 2^nd level monster let alone a campaign – so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.

You can run games for free.  May lack some of the conveniences, but it is not a false statement. I was running games on the GTO table for free for a few months before I actually spent any out of pocket money.  I had even used GTO gold to purchase some extras without paying out of pocket cash, using their daily free offers to accumulate enough GTO gold to make some small purchases.  I acquired the Deserts of Athas set, $3.30 worth of GTO gold, without ever paying a dime, just by watching their advertiser videos, and participating in more of their free gold offers.  

Sorry if my opinion doesn’t match yours but they are definitely charging for something that was free, that is a simple fact.

They offer optional subscriptions, but they are not mandatory.  As Mata said above, you can acquire extra tiles, tokens, all the monster data without spending a dime out of pocket, just by participating in enough of their free Gold offers.  it is actually more economical not to subscribe for all but the Adventure traders.  

Is there everything you had at the moment of Wotc discontinuing things? No.  But there was everything and more than there was when most of us started with the beta.  Having played on the VT Beta for 2 years, GTO is doing more than WOTC did with the table.  And despite some claims, it is more economical than it was also.  

Despite the claims, if you weren't a DDI subscriber, you couldn't play on the VT (so definitely wasn't free however it's spun  May have been part of another subscription, but money definitely needed to be spent to use it).  If you are not a GTO subscriber,  you can play on the RPGTO.  You can DM on the RPGTO.  I am thinking of getting my 13 year old son a GTO account so he can play D&D, and create dungeons.  And it'll all be without ever spending a dime for him.