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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 4:50AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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edit:This thread has been highjacked. Theres a minor flame war based around the WoTC web site, so if you skim through the posts, just skip that material.
I have been away from FRP for a while now, Warhammer 40k and family have kept me busy. DnD is now part of Americana, with references to it on TV and in print, it is very much larger than just a “brand name” it is a whole new type of entertainment. I’m not sure why I came to this web site and downloaded the play test. Something got me thinking about the game again. I have a feeling that a lot of people are thinking about it. That being said what elements of the game as you play it make it difficult to include non-gamers? Think of people like your neighbor who invited you to his softball team, or the guys at work always talking about poker or fantasy football, your aunt who lives by herself and doesn’t get out much.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 5:06AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2012
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My own list is topped by “geek bias” or the feeling people have that the game is not for them just because…well I don’t think they could even say why. There is also the stigma associated with the game caused by some tragic and grossly misrepresented events in the early 1980’s. That however is finally fading. Once we figure out how to get beyond those issues the next step is to create a package that is appealing to a wide audience. Current gamers should of course be the primary concern, but what can we do to make DnD interesting and engaging to a larger audience? And how can we implement those devices in a way that also captures the imaginations of current gamers?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 5:24AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2008
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Nice thread bluespruce786. I'll add some to your list.
Limits dnd has... Well dnd is a medieval fantasy rpg at its core so we go from there.
People dont like rgs, pen and paper activities, medieval fantasy trope, or dices.
Then this game needs a dm. Its not plug and play.
So lacking dms and dm materials, dnd cannot be played.
Dnd has 3 pretty cumbersome rule books.
People who dont like to read much.
Dnd requires friends/players. Its not something you can do alone in your home.
People with limited social activity.
It takes considerable time.
Very busy schedules for 4-5 people is always a problem.
Im pretty sure others will help with more issues I cant think of atm.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 5:25AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2008
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Depends on the edition and the person really.
For some it is counterintuitive, fiddly and overly complex (some things you decide with a d20 roll high, some it's roll low, some things it's a d10 for this class, d6 for that class and d12 for another class etc etc).
For some the community is simply not welcoming- if you doubt that look at the edition wars on this very site.
Those are 2 major contributors in my opinion. Geek bias is also a contributor as well I agree.
But the biases OF the "geeks" plays a part.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 5:57AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2010
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How to figure out if your neighbour makes a good D&D player:
1. Invite him to play a boardgame with you.
2. Play a fantasy based board game with him (Dungeon! or Legend of Drizzt).
3. Invite him to join you on a Gameday or convention.
He is still showing up on your doorstep?
4. Host a D&D session for him!
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 6:02AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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The biggest problem I find with D&D is teaching them. Normally I can get a non gamer to play a session with me, but if they can't get their head around how the game works generally in the first session then they don't come back. I think the basic set will be the key: Something eye catching thing that is cheap - Like a tenner (WOTC should consider taking a loss on these units if they have to) - and has everything you need to play. Do it in 20-40 pages, maximum. The closer to 20 the better. Put some awesome environment on the cover; the point is to be able to set yourself in a scene, not look at awesome heroics. Some badass monster like a dragon is good. Dragons. They're in the title. Everyone knows what they look like. Perhaps a dragon. In a dungeon. Give us 4 classes (some say 2) and let them level to 5, give us a starter adventure (to be included in the 20-40 page count). Make that starter adventure easier to read than the playtest ones. My god I hate how the playtest adventures are written. Make it linear and simple. Give us some mats, give us some dice. The mats could be made of card. Give us minis, not those crappy pogs. They can be crappy minis, but make 'em 3 dimensional figures. Make those figures relevent to the advanture! Make it clear that not all groups will use all the materials in the box. Make it clear that the game is designed to be adapted. Include a spell list of no more than 10 spells per class. Do not bother us with optional systems like specialties and backgrounds. Do not bother us with class options; pick a configuration for each class that is simple and stick to it. Brevity is the soul of wit. Anyway I think another product that is not D&D but like D&D would do wonders. I recruited a players off the back of a HeroQuest game, something like that might make a really sweet introduction to the genre.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 6:29AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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The biggest problem I find with D&D is teaching them. Normally I can get a non gamer to play a session with me, but if they can't get their head around how the game works generally in the first session then they don't come back.
I agree with this. There should always be an intro product that is very, very simple. I also find that a lot of folks have a hard time getting past the hurdle that this isn't a board game, it's a play-pretend game. Some people just don't get into that, some are a little too self conscious about that, but others have something inside that is liberated when they figure that out and will become gamers for life.
Anyway I think another product that is not D&D but like D&D would do wonders. I recruited a players off the back of a HeroQuest game, something like that might make a really sweet introduction to the genre.
I also agree with this because it helps to bridge that gap between board game and play-pretend game that many people have trouble with. When my junior high school friends and I first started, it was with HeroQuest. We expanded on it until it couldn't expand enough to fill our insatiable desire for more, and that's when we switched to D&D.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 8:10AM
#8
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If we are talking about the RPG hobby at large, the main hurdle to get new players over is the roleplaying in itself. Some people like that from the start, other people find it strange and awkward to pretend to be someone else.
If we are talking about D&D in particular, over other tabletop RPGs then it is by far the cheesy and simplistic tone. Most RPGers I know want deep immersion, moral dilemmas and intense character development and they react quite bad to the black and white and stereotypical D&D fantasy. So the biggest hurdle there is to explain that the ruleset can be used to play a deeper kind of game aswell.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 8:11AM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Can I also just point out one of the worst, WORST offenders?:
This website.
The Official D&D website is so badly set up, so badly layered, as to be extremely off-putting. I'm a player with over 30 years experience with this game, and when I was returning to the brand to try 4th edition, I couldn't even find a simple list, ANYWHERE on this site which would declare which products were necessary for play. Half the links on even the front page of the site are either dead or go behind a pay-wall which means I can't get basic information. The other half discuss minutae which could only be of interest to those already heavily invested in the system. Try to poke the little "find a game near you" buttons on the right, and be prepared for a whole new level of nightmare as WotC fails to actually deliver that information in the most confusing possible manner.
This website needs to be burned down to the ground and started from scratch. The front page should have three buttons, total: Here's the checklist of what you need to play, here's a google map populated with nearby games registered with us, and here's the forums. Period.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 8:20AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2006
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Can I also just point out one of the worst, WORST offenders?:
Don't forget to add, THESE forums. It is not a friendly environment.
Browncoats Unite...
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