Oh, bravo! I am glad to see something with Evasive Reflexes. I thought that's what the Evasion Tank might have been, using e.g. Evasive + Karmic Strike (though that shouldn't work, since you have to be hit with Karmic to get the AoO - it's debatable, though). Sadly, Robilar's states that you take the AoO after being hit, too.
Thanks!
Interestingly, although Robilar's is slow, it has a few advantages - it triggers off of a hit or a miss (including if you counter - we use Shield Block from here, but an Iron Heart vest might be able to add on Wall of Blades, which hilariously doesn't appear to require a melee attack roll either - you can block a greatclub with an arrow!). It also doesn't care if the attack is in melee or at range - archers ambushing you are in for a surprise (you have Uncanny Dodge and Combat Reflexes, so you keep your Dex to AC and can make AoOs while flat-footed, so each of those arrows going your way gives you a chance to shift behind cover before you roll initiative). Finally, the AC penalty is offset by Skirmish - I think this is the only build I've seen that can trigger skirmish off-turn, although other builds with Skirmish + Robilar's can do similar things with on-turn movement.
The REAL strength with Robilar's + Evasive has yet to be plumbed. What if I told you I had threedifferent builds waiting for people behind "Something Completely Different" this week? I'm kind of disappointed no one's going for that.
I think the winner is using it with Scout, though. It's a smart way to get the skirmish damage.
The line of reasoning behind that was something like this: -Heavy Weapons Elf gets Defensive Rebuke at range, but doesn't have a way to take AoOs. -Gnowhere Gnome reminds us that Evasive Reflexes exists. -I wonder what happens if we put the two together? -Hey, look at that, it's surprisingly good! -Now, what else can we do with this much free movement? -Skirmish is a natural thought here - have enemies trigger your movement, and keep a threatened area + Thicket to provide some ability to retreat if you're caught off-guard in Skirmish's close range. This is quite interesting because we don't need to worry about extra-action movement to get a full-attack skirmish - off-turn movement is enough, at least while Defensive Rebuke is granted. -May as well go Swift Hunter to get the attack bonus up, especially while delaying Crusader's start point to get Defensive Rebuke. Also gives us Distracting Attack, which fits with the harrier theme. -Hm. Why not add in Sorcerer for Sniper's Shot? Lets you move far away from battle and still keep the damage up. -Sorcerer also gets Enlarge Person - which is defensive here, hilariously enough, since big threatened areas in Thicket provoke AoOs which we can use to escape. -Finally, why not grab Press the Advantage, to give an extreme movement advantage? Needs a Martial Stance feat, but we've got the slot open. (My original buildplan had Robilar's in this feat slot until Andarious correctly pointed out that Press the Advantage is much more interesting here, but Robilar's + Evasive is still an extremely powerful combination with the right support.)
At this point the build split in two - one based on fleshing out the feats and maneuver choices, producing Flip the Bird. The others... well, you'll see soon. Andarious' PbP character earlier in the thread is an example of what we've found, but the format on that page prevents you from clearly seeing just how surprising it was.
(And a note to the rest of our group: I'm trying to keep the spoilers on that down a bit, until it gets released here.)
One question - Defensive Rebuke states that your foe provokes an AoO from you. Are you assuming that's enough to activate Evasive Reflexes? It seems as though you need to stand adjacent to everyone for it to work, because unless you threaten them you can't get your AoOs (even if one argues that the AoO is threaten regardless of whether you can take it - which I think is just exploiting bad wording - Evasive only works when you have "a chance to make an attack of opportunity").
It is enough to activate Evasive Reflexes. Normally, an opponent needs to be within your threatened area to provoke at all. Defensive Rebuke explicitly says that their attack provokes an attack of opportunity from you: " If [an opponent you hit after using this boost] attacks anyone other than you in melee for the duration of the maneuver, that attack provokes an attack of opportunity from you (each separate attack a target makes provokes an attack of opportunity, making this boost especially lethal if you have Combat Reflexes)". Note that you don't have to threaten the target for the provoke! The boost provides the provoke trigger on its own.
If, for instance, a normal melee crusader Defensively Rebukes a gnoll, then the gnoll manages to escape from the crusader and attack the party rogue from outside the crusader's reach, he still provokes from the crusader - it's just that the crusader can't take the opportunity since he can't reach the gnoll. (In a normal fight, the gnoll would have to do something while threatened to provoke, but with Defensive Rebuke, he merely needs to attack someone else - there's no need to threaten unless you want to follow through with the attack.)
With Flip, the same sort of thing happens - but Evasive Reflexes says "When an opponent gives you a chance to make an attack of opportunity, you can instead immediately take a 5-foot step." Note that it doesn't say you have to be able to make that attack, nor do you need to threaten the target. When someone provokes an attack from you, they give you the chance to take that AoO. Defensive Rebuke lets that provoke happen even if they're outside your threatened area. You then trade that chance (which is useless to you) for a 5' step.
I also spotted Fade into Violence which might have been useful with Defensive Rebuke (enemy strikes at you, Fade diverts to an ally - who probably benefits from Iron Guard's Glare - and Defensive Rebuke is triggered) but it seems far too limited.
It is kind of limited, but there are a few other, less-limited ways to get this same result. Take a look at the Evasion Tank - Manticore Parry, Scorpion Parry, and Elusive Target: Redirect Attack all can trigger Defensive Rebuke's AoOs as well. There's just a lot of swift-action competition on that build, so you don't see it quite as much.
Also, Karmit/Robilar's + Evasive to set up things like flanks sounds like fun, though Island of Blades does make that somewhat redundant.
You'd think so, but I think you'll be surprised with what we've found...
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
Oh, I'm sure Robilar's + Evasive could be useful, but my first thought was to use it (or Karmic) to avoid hits completely by 5ft-stepping out of range whenever you're attacked. It's probably a good thing that doesn't work, however.
I think there are plenty of other fun things you could do with that free movement, like Child of Shadow (? - the one which gives you concealment if you move) or Desert Wind Dodge (not amazing but it's the first that springs to mind). Scout is probably the most obvious and potentially the best, though.
However, I'm not sold on Defensive and Evasive working together from range. Firstly, most things which say they provoke AoOs don't mention explicitly that they only do so from those threatening you. By this logic, Evasive would trigger if someone across the battlefield (or the world) started casting a spell. You could easily break the sound barrier this way. Secondly, I don't think you "have a chance to make an AoO" if you can't actually make an AoO. That wording is even less favourable than if it just said "when they provoke an AoO" or similar. Thirdly, even though the RAW is perhaps not explicit, I'd say the RAI are clearly not for this to work, and I don't think I could ever get it past a DM even if they allowed Defensive to work in the first place.
This could be a pretty cool combo to use in melee, but unfortunately it seems a tad... dubious... at best, when used at range (unless you, say, carry a kusari-gama in your off-hand...).
Casting in melee provokes an AOO, not just casting at all. Same with ranged attacks (normally). You'd never break the sound barrier because even if you went with we'll say Psychic Weapon Master to get 1+Dex+Wis AOO's per round and maxed out those stats you'd still be limited to about 20 AOO's a round tops.
However, I'm not sold on Defensive and Evasive working together from range. Firstly, most things which say they provoke AoOs don't mention explicitly that they only do so from those threatening you. By this logic, Evasive would trigger if someone across the battlefield (or the world) started casting a spell.
I concur broadly with your post but would like to raise an issue with this part.
Casting a spell does provoke - but using the normal provoke rules. The only time that distracting activities (spellcasting, ranged attacks, etc) provoke AoOs is if you use them while threatened, so an unthreatened caster doesn't actually provoke. Evasive Reflexes, however, removes the "while threatened" requirement - the only thing needed for a provoke is if the rebuked enemy makes a melee attack against someone other than you. Not "makes a melee attack against someone other than you while you threaten him" or similar text (text which does appear on the standard AoO rules regarding spellcasting, ranged attacks, etc.).
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
OK, that was exaggeration for effect, which we probably all know is a bad idea.
There are however mentions of AoOs in the descriptions of actions which aren't so specific. Bull Rush: "The defender provokes AoOs if he is moved. So do you, if you move with him". Grapple: "You provoke an AoO from the target you are trying to grapple." Even if he's unarmed? And so forth. Could you Bull Rush someone to trigger your own Evasive Reflexes? That would be cool, but really probably not legal.
Besides, the point is that if they didn't include mention of the threatened area, it's because they thought it a given that AoOs can only be provoked against foes who threaten you. OK, they were lax in letting it be used by ranged attacks in the first place, but that aside, it's arguable that attacking someone under Defensive Rebuke is itself one of the "distracting actions" which require you to be in a threatened area. Regardless, when the RAW is unclear, I think one has to go with the RAI which is - unfortunately - for this not to work (at least, not quite as used, with ranged weapons from such a range - it could still be awesome with a reach weapon, say).
You stopped AS IF you had used up your move actions. You did not actually use up all your move actions IF YOU HAVE A SECOND MOVE ACTION available from something like Hustle - or even trading your standard action to do so. You can then spend the second move action to attempt to move your speed again.
Even if you were stopped by Stand Still and could no longer move (due to your movement from move actions effectively being used up), manifesting hustle afterwards would give you an additional action that wasn't used up since you didn't have it at the time you were struck by Stand Still.
Stand Still could cancel the movement from hustle if you'd already manifested the power, but manifesting it after already being stopped gives you an action that hasn't been effectively used up.
I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't think the order of operations matters at all - because Stand Still doesn't actually remove all movement. It simply stops your current movement "as if" you had used up your move actions. You still have those actions available, and Stand Still does nothing to affect future movement, regardless of what actions you have available.
For instance, again, I can spend my move action on Order Forged from Chaos. I still have a swift and standard available, but now I have used up my move actions. Nothing is stopping me from trading my standard action for a move action and moving my speed, or spending my swift action on Hustle (well, assuming you have access to both that and high-level maneuvers... nitpick aside) and using that bonus move action to move my speed.
I don't see any difference between that scenario and one where, instead of Order Forged from Chaos, I moved my speed and was smacked with Stand Still before I left the first square - I stop "as if" I had used up my move actions. From there, I still have ways of getting extra move actions - some magical, some mundane.)
Apart from the slightly clumsy wording of Stand Still talking about move actions which only exist in potential, it describes move actions as a plural, indicating that it can stop movement from more than one move action at once. Since actions don't explicitly have a set form per round (some rounds you might use a single full-round action, in others you might use a standard action and a move action, and so on), it can only be referring to your potential use of move actions. The plural also couldn't be referring to any earlier move actions, since any move action before your current movement would already be completed, so it must refer to both current and future move actions.
I don't think it can stop move actions that you don't even have yet (for example, the possibility exists that you might not manifest hustle later, so preventing it would be something of a paradox), but it appears entirely capable of shutting down your current allocation of movement. I would guess that this is also how it's supposed to stop charging, which doesn't use move actions at all, but which would be impossible to perform if you were denied the movement of potential move actions.
If Stand Still were literally restricted to stopping movement from your current move action, it wouldn't be of any use in stopping a character using the run, charge, or withdraw actions. As I indicated before, though, I'm not terribly fond of the feat's wording.
The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens
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If Stand Still were literally restricted to stopping movement from your current move action, it wouldn't be of any use in stopping a character using the run, charge, or withdraw actions. As I indicated before, though, I'm not terribly fond of the feat's wording.
I'm not overly fond of its wording either.
I've seen you take feats you don't like and rework them in other threads; I'm curious what your wording would be (given how the intended effect is pretty clear - an AoO due to movement should end that movement).
I don't think there's a problem with its resolution mechanic either (no-damage, but roll damage and use as Reflex DC).
For what it's worth, my take would be "Or immediately stop moving. He cannot make further movement this turn unless he spends the actions to do so (which may provoke another Stand Still from you)."
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
