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8 months ago ::
Oct 21, 2012 - 11:54AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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i miss the days where the dragon magazine had this many articles: wizards.com/dnd/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/drto...
That's a much healthier way to approach the issue and I think I have a possible solution for the problem.
Just pulling a couple Dragon hard copies off my shelf and getting mildly OCD about them:
Dragon #359, 9/2007
- 132 total pages
- 23 full page ads
- 6 half page ads
- 7 third page ads
- 4 pages of comics
- 100 total pages of content and possibly the zenith of the brand
Dragon #169, 5/1991
- 120 total pages
- 42 full page ads
- 10 half page ads
- Aprox 6 third page ads
- 5 pages of comics
- 5 pages of convention schedules & TSR product previews
- 60 total pages of content
That is getting pretty nutty about it but the old Dragon Mags were largely trade magazines and covered book reviews, video game reviews, articles covering the entire RPG industry, and lots and lots of flogging products from every company that could buy ad space or convince someone at Dragon to review their product. It was an industry trade magazine propped up by lots of ads that covered the geek genre as a whole from an RPG-geek perspective. There were lots of D&D-specific articles but lots of other stuff as well. (For example, Dragon 169 includes Marvel Superheroes stats for Ghost and Ghost Rider.) In addition you have Letters to the Editor and none of the articles were vetted and added to a compendium, character builder, and monster tool like they are today. (Imagine the outrage if letters to the editor appeared today. WTF? What a waste of space!!) I personally would like more content as well. I won't argue against that, but WotC cut itself off at the knees when it moved online because they're not selling ad space anymore. That's part of the problem. Nobody is paying the bills now but the subscribers. The industry ads also helped subsidize the content. Imagine if Goodman Games got to plug their 4E adventures and Amethyst Foundations 4E Sci-Fi on the WoTC site for a little bit of money? What if GURPS or Palladium got to flog products in the pages of Dragon and Dungeon like they always did in the print editions? (The geekarrati might scream bloody murder, but it would again monetize the brand and it's what other media companies already do.) Quality isn't free. If we want the page count back, WotC needs to act like a mature media company and provide the same type of ad content you see in the Washington Post, NY Times, or Huffington Post. It's what they did in paper and they need a mature ad strategy for the web. Again, become a mature media company and win. ~P.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 21, 2012 - 12:34PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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For the sake of consistency, Dragon #416, 10/2012
- 34 total pages
- No full page ads
- No half page ads
- 4 third page ads
- No comics
- No convention schedule
- No product previews
- 32-33 pages of content
There isn't much fluff in there (Letters to the Editor, video game reviews, book reviews, sage advice, etc.). Errata, convention schedules, comics, WotC product previews, community dialogue (forums)... all those are outside the mag now. I might roll the comics back into the mags, but that's just my opinion. There's no doubt the magazines could be better and selling ad space would pay for the additional content. The single download and final finished product (Dragon Issue X is done!) is a big deal for me. Releasing it all at once or in dribs and drabs doesn't matter to me so much. One single release is probably a bad idea from a media perspective because it will reduce the number of times I hit their site. Monetizing your Media (INT check DC: 20)Take the character builder for example. That's your product's entry point and you want a newcomer to get there and use it quickly but you also need to pay for it. Sell ad space there and create an ad-lite version for subscribers. If it works for Angry Birds, why wouldn't it work for WotC's character builder?
- New Player - I don't subscribe but I get access to the CB. I have to see some ads but I get full access anyway. (Like YouTube for example.)
- Veteran Player - I decide to pay for the subscription and now I get the mags, all the tools but most importantly, I don't need to see the ads to use the CB. There might be sidebar ads still, but they don't interfere with my tool.
- DM - I subscribe and I can make characters, monsters, read the mags and hit the compendiums. I may encounter some sidebar ads but they shouldn't be offensive.
This model pays for the tools, enpowers new users, and still rewards the power user. If the ads don't get annoying, WotC wins and I win because they can roll the ad money into additional staff and content. ~P.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 21, 2012 - 1:25PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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Sure, because we all know that printing and distributing magazine is completly free! (sarcasm btw)
No, advertising cover printing and distribution cost, but it's not raw profit compared to digital when you have to pay for subscription for it.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 21, 2012 - 2:53PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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No, advertising cover printing and distribution cost, but it's not raw profit compared to digital when you have to pay for subscription for it.
Perhaps, but things change. Advertising is still income whether it is paying for paper or web server space.
In 1991 Dragon had a staff of 11 people listed in the credits and 12 people in 2007 for the final issue. That's on par with the staff today which looks to be about 11 people. That being said, I don't think any of these people are dedicated staff like say Erik Mona was. (Chris Perkins, for example, does more than Dragon Magazine and is listed as leading a team of designers and developers for the D&D brand.)
Likewise, none of that includes web developers, database nerds, or custom software guys to handle the tools or manage the forums. In addition, WotC is maintaining a website which replaces many of the things (product announcements, Con Schedule, managed play, errata, and what-not that the magazines had done in the past.
The primary people working the magazines right now are, in my opinion, over-commited to projects servicing the larger brand. Long-term that is going to cause both the brand and the magazine to suffer.
I like many things about 4E but I think it often sacrificed narrative quality for perceived playability. Pathfinder appears (from my outsider's perspective) not to have made that sacrifice. The other day I flinched when I flipped through the Pathfinder books at the friendly local gameshop because these look like quality books to me and the Paizo site does understand how to play as a digital media company. Their site looks more like an RPG version of Amazon.com than a legacy RPG company site with many of the features I already discussed including customer reviews, and products from other publishers.
Ads may no longer pay for the paper and publishing. That doesn't mean ads can't pay for something else like an ad-driven free Character Builder, additional staff, and more content. Video game ads, book ads, movie ads, comic book ads, RPG ads... It doesn't have to suck and it can stay within geek culture. I don't think my players would get too whiny if they had to watch the latest Batman trailer before they could level their character without a subscription. It works for Hulu, YouTube, and the Daily Show.
Dragon #364 is 85 pages without a single ad and there is none of the convention schedule, catlogue, or product review fluff the magazines carried historically. In my opinion, that was a bad decision and ultimately unsustainable. Why WotC chose to abandon money on the table when they could be using it to build the brand is baffling to me.
~P.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 21, 2012 - 5:19PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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There is a big problem...this is the internet...and outside of youtube, you mentioned services that IP block countries out that aren't included by the demography of their Ads, do you really think that blocking people outside of the first world bubble is the best option?
I have encountered countless times that i can't watch content on websites because region lock... a example, i can't watch The Walking Dead episodes posted on AMCtv.com, Justin.tv and Twitch.tv have country caps on countries that they don't have ads made for those countries just to name a few.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 5:16PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
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Dragon for that month still had 37 pages. This months Dragon is still only 34 pages so I don't get where your approval of the length comes from.
Strangely, my approval comes from my personal opinions. I'm not sure why what I think or my thought process should bother you since opinions are, by definition, personally derived. In balance on the other hand, you can think whatever pleases you best without my approval.
~P.
That's cool. Didn't mean to step on your toes but this is a forum, not a blog.
I was hoping to trigger a discussion so that you could explain your thought process, rather than just saying that it bothered me. Like I said, maybe I was missing something so I explained what my opinion was and some "evidence" to back it up, hoping you might do the same. This might help me change my opinion or refine it through debate.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 5:46PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2008
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i miss the days where the dragon magazine had this many articles: wizards.com/dnd/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/drto...
That's a much healthier way to approach the issue and I think I have a possible solution for the problem.
...
That is getting pretty nutty about it but the old Dragon Mags were largely trade magazines and covered book reviews, video game reviews, articles covering the entire RPG industry, and lots and lots of flogging products from every company that could buy ad space or convince someone at Dragon to review their product. It was an industry trade magazine propped up by lots of ads that covered the geek genre as a whole from an RPG-geek perspective.
...
I personally would like more content as well. I won't argue against that, but WotC cut itself off at the knees when it moved online because they're not selling ad space anymore. That's part of the problem. Nobody is paying the bills now but the subscribers. The industry ads also helped subsidize the content.
...
Imagine if Goodman Games got to plug their 4E adventures and Amethyst Foundations 4E Sci-Fi on the WoTC site for a little bit of money? What if GURPS or Palladium got to flog products in the pages of Dragon and Dungeon like they always did in the print editions? (The geekarrati might scream bloody murder, but it would again monetize the brand and it's what other media companies already do.)
Quality isn't free. If we want the page count back, WotC needs to act like a mature media company and provide the same type of ad content you see in the Washington Post, NY Times, or Huffington Post. It's what they did in paper and they need a mature ad strategy for the web.
Again, become a mature media company and win.
~P.
This I completely agree with this.
There's no reason why they cannot stick a half-page of 1/3 ad on the back of every DDI article. They already do it for the playtest, DDO and the Underdark/the website in general.
While these are good ways to push their own products, they aren't making any money directly. They can push their new line of merch. They don't even have to sell ad space to competing companies, they can have ads for the Gale Force 9 tokens, D&D iPad and Adroid apps or products made under the GSL. Conventions/exhibitions can advertise.
Monetization could be a problem since the old paradigm of "this is our readership, please pay $X" has gone out the window with page view and click based schemes (but then again so have printing and distribution costs). Why not then have a cost per magazine download from each of the advertisers?
They have years of data on individual articles to see which ones are the most popular (e.g. Unearthed Arcana may do better in terms of downloads than epic level adventures, or Character Themes may do better than Ecology of... of Demonomicon articles) and charge advertisers accordingly.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 23, 2012 - 6:19PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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I will give you a clue, everything will Crunch will completly crubstomp the Flavor articles in terms of download and interest by a landslide...
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7 months ago ::
Oct 24, 2012 - 12:04PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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Hola, Ultimately, I think we're looking at a transition from physical products to media content. Other companies have solved these problems and do pretty well but I don't think WotC will improve their content without a better advertising scheme.
- Marvel - $50/year gets you over 10,000 comic books with new ones continously added
- Pandora - $36/year gets you no ads for custom radio stations
- Netflix - $96/year gets you streaming movies & 1 DVD mailed at a time
And so on... These companies leverage a media library pretty well. Anyhow, I think I've said enough on it for people to get my meaning and disagree or agree as suits them. As to consumers outside the United States, being a mature media company would include addressing those concerns in an intelligent way. ~P.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 24, 2012 - 1:10PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2010
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Only netflix is avaible on my country of the ones you mentioned, thought mailed movie service is not avaible here, just internet streaming. If you want more people to get into DDI...put the damn books on it too for download!...thought DDI is kinda screwed for the next year for this...because there is no a single new D&D book out there that would make people subscribe into DDI (even piracy have ignored completly menzoberranzan and i suspect the same will happend to ed's new forgotten realms book...almost nobody care or want those books)
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