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Switch to Forum Live View Defenderless party, and my AC is the best...
9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 8:15AM #1
ChaunceyK
Date Joined: Nov 21, 2008
Posts: 271
I play a Halfling Rogue with a high AC/Reflex & powers that buff me & debuff enemies.  In a defenderless party, it would be best if enemies targeted me, but they don't once they see how hard I am to hit.  Can someone recommend a way for me to mark enemies?  I'm guessing it would require a MC of some kind, because I can't find any Rogue powers that allow marking.  I have a Dex/Cha "Artful Dodger" build....

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Koll Underfoot, level 10
Halfling, Rogue (Scoundrel)
Build: Trickster Rogue
Rogue Tactics Option: Artful Dodger
Rogue Option: Scoundrel Weapon Talent
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 10, DEX 22, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 18
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 10, DEX 18, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 14
 
 
AC: 27 Fort: 17 Ref: 27 Will: 21
HP: 79 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 19
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +18, Athletics +10, Insight +10, Perception +10, Stealth +16, Thievery +18
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +5, Heal +5, History +4, Intimidate +9, Nature +5, Religion +4, Streetwise +9
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Halfling Racial Power: Second Chance
Rogue Attack 1: Piercing Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Deft Strike
Rogue Attack 1: Opening Move
Rogue Attack 1: Blinding Barrage
Rogue Utility 2: Sneak in the Attack
Rogue Attack 3: Low Slash
Rogue Attack 5: Bloodbath
Rogue Utility 6: Swift Parry
Rogue Attack 7: Lashing Blade
Rogue Attack 9: Knockout
Rogue Utility 10: Brisk Stride
 
FEATS
Level 1: Defensive Mobility
Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 4: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 6: Backstabber
Level 8: Nimble Dodge
Level 9: Light Blade Expertise
Level 10: Silvery Glow
 
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Climber's Kit
Thieves' Tools
Lantern
Belt Pouch (empty)
Camouflaged Clothing
Footpads
Disguise Kit
Glass Cutter
Fine Clothing
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Frost Brand Dagger +2 x1
Inquisitive's Kit
Rhythm Blade Dagger +1 x1
Cloak of Displacement +2 x1
Leather Armor of Sudden Recovery +2 x1
Transference Dagger +3
====== End ======
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 8:45AM #2
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,723
Tactical warpriest PP is good, though the feature kicks in at 16.

Riposte strike has a nice feat too.

Otherwise, just stand in their way.
guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 8:50AM #3
Gunthar
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2005
Posts: 1,454
What Mellored said. You really don't have a way to "mark" an enemy. You could take the Guardian Theme for essentially a 1/encounter mark-punishment-type effect also, but you don't have the STR or WIS to multiclass Fighter for the pseudo-mark attack.

Angry Speedbump is your best bet.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 8:54AM #4
Mengu74
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 3,307
At paragon, retrain one of your skills (Insight?) to Intimidate, get Blade Bravo or Strong Arm Enforcer PP, switch an at-will to Disheartening Strike. Rattling powers aren't exactly marking, but when you don't have a mark punishment, it's actually just better, because the -2 to hit applies against you as well, with Strong Arm Enforcer, you also gain some temps to survive a bit longer, and can combine the two at level 16 (mark+rattling). You can also get Ominous Threat skill power, once you have trained intimidate.

And some random suggestions... Find Elven Chain Shirt and some Boots of the Fencing Master. Have to grab Improved Defenses in paragon. Oh and you might want to replace your Gauntlets of Blood with Babau Gauntlets.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 8:59AM #5
ChaunceyK
Date Joined: Nov 21, 2008
Posts: 271
Standing in their way will be great once I get my PermaFrost going at Level 11, so I can go solo vs enemies & encourage them to attack me.  But for now, I'm relying on flanking for my CA & Backstabbing damage, while our Leader (who happens to be a Warpriest) is taking the bulk of attacks instead of me.  I'll take a look at that PP you suggested.  In the meantime, if anyone else comes up with anything, I'm all ears.


[edit] I was typing while Mengu74 made his/her post.  I'll be sure to check into those suggestions as well!

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 9:28AM #6
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,723

Oct 19, 2012 -- 8:59AM, ChaunceyK wrote:

Standing in their way will be great once I get my PermaFrost going at Level 11, so I can go solo vs enemies & encourage them to attack me.  But for now, I'm relying on flanking for my CA & Backstabbing damage, while our Leader (who happens to be a Warpriest) is taking the bulk of attacks instead of me.  I'll take a look at that PP you suggested.  In the meantime, if anyone else comes up with anything, I'm all ears.


[edit] I was typing while Mengu74 made his/her post.  I'll be sure to check into those suggestions as well!


You could have your warpriest boost his defenses too.

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 12:04PM #7
Mengu74
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 3,307
Tactical Warpriest is a great PP, but there are a few issues for a rogue. You'll need Wis 13, which means rearranging stats a bit, and need to burn a feat for cleric multiclass. The daily heal is okay, but the skill is a bit of a waste on an 8 int. Marking doesn't come online until level 16. You can't benefit from +1 AC the PP gives because you won't be wearing heavy armor. And you'll have to reserve maneuver out the encounter power, not to mention you'll have a worthless utility at level 12, and a  worthless daily at level 20. All in all, I don't think Tactical Warpriest is a good fit for a Dex/Cha rogue. If you were Str/Dex, there would be more salvageable aspects. But still, there has to be better ways to "pretend defend" for a rogue.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 12:24PM #8
Mynagan
Date Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 27
Well if you could get a 13 Strength with that Cha...

You can only use a weak punish once per encounter, but can at least make the warpriest harder to hit by 2 or target you.


Squire of Righteousness [Multiclass Paladin]


Prerequisite: Strength 13, Charisma 13
Benefit: You gain training in one skill from the cavalier paladin’s class skills list. You also gain proficiency with holy symbols.    
You gain the defender aura power. You can use righteous radiance as an encounter power.

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 1:12PM #9
RenZhe
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2011
Posts: 985
As mentioned earlier, Blade Bravo is probably your best bet for a mark mechanic in the next 5 levels. You could alternatively pick up a theme that helps you defend (Guardian, Sentinel Marshal), or even MC Paladin.

I think the bigger problem might your party's overall AC. Your AC is Lv+17, which is solid for a striker (and pretty good for a rogue), but nothing defender-tier. That Warpriest should be easily be managing Lv+18 (chain, heavy shield) without a breaking a sweat.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 19, 2012 - 2:40PM #10
ChaunceyK
Date Joined: Nov 21, 2008
Posts: 271
Have to say, those Babau Gauntlets would be fantastic...I could use them to charge an enemy when I need to get somewhere in a hurry on the battlefield.  And think of what my Brisk Stride could add to it...a movement of 10 + my natural movement of 6, so I could theoretically melee someone 16 squares from my starting position.

Don't have access to our Warpriest on this computer, but I can check him out when I get home.

My natural AC is Lv+17, but I start the encounter at Lv+19 from my Cloak of Distortion.  And I've got so many Encounter Powers that give me bonuses to my defenses (and enemies penalties to hit me), and a +8 vs OAs, I'll just be glad to pseudo-defend any way I can.

Thanks for everything so far, you all rock!
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