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8 months ago ::
Oct 15, 2012 - 9:26PM
#1
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I'm going to preface this by saying that this is not going to be a rant about caster supremacy or vancian magic.
In fact, the only edition that I've ever noticed a marked disparity between casters and beaters is 3.x and I quite like Vancian magic for it's simplicity.
No...what I feel needs to be fixed is the classic D&D spells list and magic progression. Basically, I think the whole thing needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up.
First of all, the 1-9 spell level progression needs to be taken out behind the barn and put down like Old Yeller. I know it's tradition and all that, but if we clung to everything for tradition's sake, then women, brown people and renters still wouldn't be able to vote...so let's disabuse ourselves of the notion that things must remain in stasis for all time.
The only purpose that ye olde 9 level magic progression serves is to create a platform wherein a player gets to choose between 8 slightly more powerful versions of "Charm _____". This is a bad thing, because it creates too much clutter and redundancy, in terms of page space, rules, and design space.
No...what the system needs is a pared down spell list wherein spells scale in such a manner that they are effective throughout a characters career, from low levels all the way up to epic tier play. So instead of having Charm: Person, Animal, Monster, Houseplant, Gazebo, etc. Just have a spell called "Charm" and make sure it remains valid through all levels.
Which brings me to my second point, the classic spell list. Kill it. I know that having "Tenser's Face-melting Guitar Solo" is classic D&D and all...but the list is overburdened with redundancy and esotericism. Look at Forcecage and Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. Both create a barrier of force around a target, preventing them from moving, or from being interfered with from outside, in essence. But the actual differences between the two spells are just minutiae.
I think that you should look towards magic in Savage Worlds, which has a handful of broadly defined spells that manage to cover most of the conceptual ground of the classic D&D spell list. Here, you have a spell like Armor, which essentially protects the subject of the spell from taking damage. This armor could take the form of stone skin, a forcefield, wreathing oneself in bone or ice, etc. The actual flavor is up to the caster, but mechanically it merely grants a pile of temp HP that increase as the caster levels.
The benefits of killing the 1-9 spell level progression and ousting the classic spell list are a sleaker, more streamlined and user-friendly system. Not only does this mean less clutter and redundancy, but also a lower page count (Savage Worlds Fantasy Companion details this magic system and all of it's various options in maybe 20 pages or less, as opposed to 3e's 100 pages).
Not only that, but the pared down spell list means that instead of the 36+ spells of varying spell levels that high level casters get per diem, you can scale that down to like 12 a day. This means that NPC and higher level PC spell casters are a lot easier to generate, and are much easier to balance against melee types.
Also, having a pared down and more iconic spell list ala' Savage Worlds, creates much stronger decision points for players, which makes spell casters a much less intimidating proposition for more casual or less experienced players. You know...like your 12 year old nephew who wants to play Harry Potter like in the books he reads.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 15, 2012 - 10:47PM
#2
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I agree. They need 1st level, 3rd level, 5th level, etc...etc... spells...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 15, 2012 - 11:11PM
#3
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Nice post, JB. I know many may disagree with you, but I think you made fine points in an entertaining manner. Well done.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 12:40AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2012
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I second this.
I've been so happy with 4E leaving this oh-so expanded spells list behind.
I mean getting less choices would allow the players to concentrate on the action... not perusing the player's manual to plan their next move and miss all the fun.
However, I am not sure there should not be a sort of levelling. A young wizard would never be able to cast a complex ritual, wouldn't he ?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 1:20AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2010
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Some fine points especially where there is redunancy, although I dont have a problem with suggested spell list and then adding to that other spells for finer points of play.
Also one thing I thought you'd say, but didn't is that wouldn't it be so much simpler if 1st level meant you got 1st leve spells, 2nd = 1st and 2nd level etc. Rather than the oddity we have of you don't get 2nd level spells till 3rd etc. I guess Next has made me realise all over again how naming conventions, like spells levels can work with not against other core concepts.
Ab
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 3:24AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2012
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well one thing i have trialed which has so far worked is free spell escalation.
i did this as an attempt to A) avoid spell obsoletion and B) let people avoid taking higher ranked versions of the same spell
basically the way it works is, you cast a spell in a higher level slot and it becomes a more powerful version. Burning hands gains 1-2d4 per spell level increase. Fireball gets 2d6. Ray of Frost further drops the speed, or can increase damage. Spells that have no increasable effect instead increase the health cap. ( i have also changed the health cap on spells into a soft cap. effects people below a current HP number, those above get a save. etc) Sleep could increase the HP cap by 5-10 HP per spell level increase.
just something to think about ^_^
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 11:13AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2012
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+1 to the OP here
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 12:55PM
#8
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I agree with the OP completely, but this thread has not been ridden by hate yet, so I guess I'll do my part....
If you remove Spell Ranks, how do you show improvement in the types of spells? Do you get access to every spell at first level to limited degrees? What happens when that level 1 Wizard casts Wish? does he get 1/9 of the wish?
In all seriousness, I hate the 1-9 spell levels. I do want a way for spells to progress, and I want specific rules for it. With that in mind I DON'T want every spell to have 9 different versions depending on caster level in its text. A rules set that removed redundency, allowed spells to stay usefull at every level and 'put down' spell rank slots (but prevented spells like 'wish' or 'polymorph' being used too early in the game) would be the best for everyone. Vancian, Spell point and ect systems could all work within those spell rules... I just don't know what it would look like.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 3:34PM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Disagree, making that will kill the dnd. It could be nice in other games. But this is dnd, a classic. I think your entire post is demagogy. No offense.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 16, 2012 - 3:38PM
#10
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I agree. They need 1st level, 3rd level, 5th level, etc...etc... spells...
No...I'm saying that this is precisely what they DON'T need.
There doesn't have to be 1st level spells, 3rd levels spells, etc. There needs to be A spell, and descriptions of what that spell does at level 1, 3, 5 etc.
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