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Switch to Forum Live View My improved trip is being nerfed [3.5]
8 months ago  ::  Oct 14, 2012 - 11:34AM #1
Mohia
Date Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 9
Hello all

In my friends campaign I am playing a disarming/trip fighter. Now things are going kind of badly (I died twice at level 1 than died again at level 3) but through it all I still managed to assist my party by keeping enemies at bay with my disarming and tripping.

The problem is that the DM has understandably got tired of my tripping attempts and has told me that he is going to modify the rules as it's "overpowered". Now although I am fine with recreating my character as something else I still think its a bit unfair as from my searches of the interwebs it seems like improved trip is quite commonly seen as overpowered yet most replies to the forum posts have concensus that it is fine and does not need changing.

So I am wondering what I can do as he is saying that the guy that wrote the rulebook commented that the rule should be nerfed but I am as yet to find evidence of that from my searches.
My arguments are
  • I need to succeed in three seperate rolls to do my improved trip
  • I have invested 5 feats into it to make it as effective as it is
  • I have died three times so clearly its not that overpowered
  • I need to wield special weapons to use it efficiently
  • I am not boring in combat (he said it was but I think it's better than "I hit them")
  • I assist the weaker party member with my crowd control
  • The power attack paladin does more damage and has more influence than me in the fights
  • Our sorcerer spams grease yet that isn't being nerfed
  • Last of all against a lot of enemies it becomes useless (flying or 4 legs+)

It just seems kind of annoying that I am loosing out because I chose to specialise in something.

Also on a seperate note I was also told that being intimidated by someone meant that I am subserviant to them.
Basically we captured a werewolf and handed her over but the guards wanted to behead her. I decided that was a bit harsh and tried to prevent it so the paladin intimidated me into handing her over.
The roll succeeded but I still refused to hand her over as intimidation just makes me friendly to the paladin and does not mean that I am now dominated to do as he says. Yet I still got told that I have to compromise with him since he intimidated me.

I still refused but got a bit of an argument because of it.

What is all your takes on this. Should I just recreate my fighter or fight me ground? Should intimidate, diplomacy and bluff be used to control other characters?
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 14, 2012 - 11:39AM #2
crimsyn
Date Joined: Jun 3, 2011
Posts: 289

Oct 14, 2012 -- 11:34AM, Mohia wrote:

What is all your takes on this. Should I just recreate my fighter or fight me ground? Should intimidate, diplomacy and bluff be used to control other characters?




No.  Never.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 14, 2012 - 2:25PM #3
crzyhawk
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2010
Posts: 780

Oct 14, 2012 -- 11:39AM, crimsyn wrote:

Oct 14, 2012 -- 11:34AM, Mohia wrote:

What is all your takes on this. Should I just recreate my fighter or fight me ground? Should intimidate, diplomacy and bluff be used to control other characters?




No.  Never.




This.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 14, 2012 - 2:49PM #4
Krusk
Date Joined: Nov 30, 2005
Posts: 4,928
I'd remake your PC. You are right, it isn't particulalrly overpowered, and more just "solid and fun tactic" but if your DM is set to hate it, its worth the change. Way easier than fighting it, and you can probably find a few other tactics that seem fun. Look towards the Tome of Battle maybe?

As for social skills vs other PCs, no they are not supposed to work against other PCs. Alternatively, they work, but you the PCs player gets to decide what "Im intimidated" means. As in "im scared of him sure, but still not doing what he said."

 
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 14, 2012 - 3:03PM #5
LolaBonne
Date Joined: Aug 15, 2011
Posts: 967
Play a druid.  Your DM will be begging for the days of you tripping things.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 15, 2012 - 5:37AM #6
Mohia
Date Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 9
Was thinking of druid actually. Hopefully I won't have to switch a second time.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 15, 2012 - 8:05AM #7
iserith
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2005
Posts: 5,202
If you go druid in 3.X, then you best get a third character ready as backup. If the DM is complaining about tripping and such, druid is going to cause him to have a meltdown.
No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues.
Reduce DM Prep & Increase Player Engagement: Don't Prep the Plot  |  Structure First, Story Last  |  Collaborative Roleplay  |  "Yes, and..."  |  Prep Tips
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 15, 2012 - 11:03AM #8
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,714
I loved the Expertise fighter build, and dreamed of getting to Whirlwind Attack with Improved Trip.

But the idea of a fighter being a "trip" fighter is ridiculous. Even without house rules, there are plenty of plausible ways to disrupt tripping, and even without any disruption at all, it's a silly and fairly unheroic way to fight. But other than just focusing on damage, or getting in some ranged feats, it's pretty much the only viable approach for a fighter. And once you're down a given path, there's no real way to get off it.

No need to torture your DM with a druid, but talk to him, and see if there's a way you can play a fun fighter without having to resort to annoying tricks.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 15, 2012 - 3:14PM #9
crzyhawk
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2010
Posts: 780

Oct 15, 2012 -- 11:03AM, Centauri wrote:

I loved the Expertise fighter build, and dreamed of getting to Whirlwind Attack with Improved Trip.

But the idea of a fighter being a "trip" fighter is ridiculous. Even without house rules, there are plenty of plausible ways to disrupt tripping, and even without any disruption at all, it's a silly and fairly unheroic way to fight. But other than just focusing on damage, or getting in some ranged feats, it's pretty much the only viable approach for a fighter. And once you're down a given path, there's no real way to get off it.

No need to torture your DM with a druid, but talk to him, and see if there's a way you can play a fun fighter without having to resort to annoying tricks.




He shouldn't have to change characters because his DM can't build an encounter.  And yes, when trips shut down all your encounters, you're not doing it right.  The DM in this case needs to adapt and overcome.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 15, 2012 - 3:26PM #10
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,714

Oct 15, 2012 -- 3:14PM, crzyhawk wrote:

He shouldn't have to change characters because his DM can't build an encounter.  And yes, when trips shut down all your encounters, you're not doing it right.  The DM in this case needs to adapt and overcome.


The fact remains that "tripping" is a silly one-trick pony to build a character around, and it locks the DM into walking a fine line between providing too much and too little opprortunity for this particular fighter to shine. Better to make a character that makes its own opportunities, rather than hoping the DM provides them.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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