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• Rules as they exist Level adjustment 6/Slaad 8/Classes 6 is a full level 20 build. 
• Rules as this house rule proposes -  Slaad CR 8/ Real classes 12 is your full level 20 build.

Oct 14, 2012 -- 12:35PM, Krazed wrote:

Thank you for the reassurance. Since a blue slaad has a CR of 8, 8 HD, and cast spells at caster-level 8, I assumed I should probably treat him as level 8

The LA on many monders may be a little crazy but playing a Blue Slaad as if it were just ECL8 is INSANE!

Just for reference I'm looking in the 3.5 MM pg 229.  It starts out as a Outsider 8 with outsider giving a full BAB, three good saves, a not so shappy d8 HD size, and a very impressive 8 skill points per HD.  Maybe those aren't enough to match the five bonus feats a Fighter8 could get but it's at +4 on REF and WILL saves, just -9 on hitpoints, and has four times more skill points.  You may have a problem with monster HD being valued as highly as class levels but to me Outsider and Dragon HD can come very close to matching some classes and I don't even consider levels in Monstrous Humanoid to be a huge drawback.

Now to look at where that LA comes from.  For starters we have the large size and big natural armor bonus.  Having FIVE natural attacks is also something to consider as pretty potent; give up a claw attack to carry a weapon instead and you can gain another attack.  It may not be smart or wise with -4 to those abilities but it gets STR +12, DEX +4, and CON +8 which are massive for a melee style character.  Now that STR gives +6 on melee attacks which is pretty much what you could get with six class levels plus it includes a big damage bonus; that CON bonus is almost like adding another 1d8 HD for every other HD you so 8d8+32 only averages 10hp less then 14d10 averages but the Slaad would gain hp faster.  Looking at the Blues other abilities the energy immunity/resistances aren't huge but cover everything; its fast healing is definitely something a PC will enjoy (and should easily make up for a few less hitpoints) as it goes into every encounter at full health.  Its spell-like abilities may not seem like much but passwall gets through all kinds of barriers and Slaad Fever can let him leave a place in total chaos.

It may not be the most optimized creature in the world but I'm going to say that as a PC your base Blue Slaad IS going to need to weigh in at ECL 14.  Remember that it gets to use PC base stats and should be equiped at its ECL instead of using the NPC values.

Here are some basic comparisons between a Blue Slaad and a human Fighter 14.  For the sake of arguement I'm going to use a base stat array 15,13,14,12,10,8 for each with the fighter's increases all going to STR.
Base stats:  BS=STR 27, DEX 17, CON 22, INT 8, WIS 6, CHA 8; Ftr=STR 18, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 8
HD/Hp:  BS = 8d8 + 48 (88); Ftr = 14d10 +28 (110);  edge to fighter but don't forget Fast healing
Saves:  BS = F +12, R +9, W +4; Ftr = F +11, R +5, W +4;  edge to slaad
Skill points:  BS 70; Ftr 68; even but Ftr has higher maximum ranks
Melee Attack:  BS = +15 (wpn+8 or +12 2h); Ftr +18 (wpn +4 or +6 2h); even
Full Attack:  BS = +15/+10/+10/+10/+10/+10 (1h weaponx2/clawx3/bite); Ftr + 18/+13/+8
Full Attack:  BS all natural = +15/+15/+15/+15/+10 (4 claws and bite)
Feats:  BS 3; Human Ftr 14; Fighter does get a clear advantage here
Special abilities:  BS = many; Fighter = none except from Feats; Clear advantage to Slaad here.
 
Overall, it looks to me like a Blue Slaad probably can hold its own when stacked up against another 14th-level character.  Letting someone play one as a 8th-level PC is just plain stupid if you even begin to look at the numbers.

I think the best house rule I have seen to allow for high HD and LA monsters in play is to instead use their CR.  If you used this rule, you would be those stats from the MM, maybe with rolled abilities and choosing your own feats along with your level 8 party. You could then take levels as normal.

really misses some of the big points of difference between CR and LA/ECL.  Throwing in rolled (presumably PC style) abilities already increases a creatures CR but you've always been allowed to change the selected feats.  With the idea that you could play a high LA/HD monster at its CR consider the following:

Nymph:  CR 7, HD 6 +7 LA; is this really fair a 7th-level character when it already cast spells as a Druid 7?
Young Gold Dragon:  CR 9, HD 14 +6 LA; good luck trying to convince me that it can play nice with 9th-level character.
Ogre:  CR3,  HD 4 +2 LA; Here I may not like an Ogre as a 6th-level PC but it definitely needs to be higher then 3rd-level when used as a PC.
 
I'll also point out a couple little mistake Krazed made when complaining about a Blue Slaad as a 14th-level character.  For starters his hitpoints were almost 30% low because he failed to account for PC stats.  Similiarly his damage figure is a little low; with that I'd also say that there is no reason it should NOT be comprable to what a Ranger or Barbarian could deal as all are martial characters.