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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:04AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Heroic Exertion Expend a CS die (sometimes called straining or pushing yourself) this is recovered when you have an opportunity to relax and shake it off not necessarily a long time. Your CS based action is more effective than the CS dice than you spend. I spent only one CS die but it gave me 3 die of effect.
In effect by having a heroic exertion rule maneuvers don't need to be categorized as encounter powers (they just need higher cs die costs) or any such thing those using the rule will have fighters with climactic abilities. One noted benefit is that it has a discouragement for hitting with your biggest mojo at the beginning of the fight since the strain makes you less effective subsequently. Climactic Maneuvers Sacrifice Moves
Similar to Heroic exertion above except HD might be spent for a similar purpose or specific moves may be designated as requiring the HD independent of their CS cost. (suggested I think by CarlT.) Desperation Moves
Climactic moves can only be accessed when you are on the ropes such as below 50 percent hit points these may be more erratic and more powerful (having reduced chance to hit but doing more damage or actually having more extreme effects or effects that involve rolling on a table making them unpredictable)
Changing the fighter to Encounter Based CS No I don't mean multiplying the number of dice you get (this might work better) Use the above rules plus one more.
It's easy to assume and see how one might be disinclined to exert early because of the penalty but what if Desperation moves were also available after all CS dice are expended? ... then desperation becomes the culmination of the fight and using the big booms even when you get a temporary reduction in capability is tempting. (need to ward against this becoming the only gambit - ie careful calibration so desperation moves aren't too useful)
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:20AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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As another option sure. For me no. This though could be just like the various definitions of the wizard they are thinking about.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:22AM
#3
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Has an unfortunate smell of "gimp yourself to do something cool".
...whatever
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:31AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Has an unfortunate smell of "gimp yourself to do something cool".
Its choice drivin.
If you do the exertion defensively you may prevent taking damage that would have taken you or an ally down and out of the action... worth a gimp? or offensively you may shorten the fight by taking out an adversary quicker... resulting in fewer rounds that you even need the CS dice.
Expending the HD is the Daily resource in there which doesnt gimp and its more strategic.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:32AM
#5
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Has an unfortunate smell of "gimp yourself to do something cool".
Its choice drivin.
If you do the exertion defensively you may prevent taking damage that would have taken you or an ally down and out of the action... worth a gimp? or offensively you may shorten the fight by taking out an adversary quicker... resulting in fewer rounds that you even need the CS dice.
Expending the HD is the Daily resource in there which doesnt gimp and its more strategic.
Id rather the Fighter be able to do cool things without having to gimp themselves.
...whatever
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:34AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Its not really much different than the nova concept. Are you gimped after you can nolonger do a nova? You spent all your action points on it... and maybe an encounter power too.
At the end of a longer duration fight in 4e at-wills becoming the norm is pretty gimped.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:35AM
#7
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I am still very much against the idea of using hit dice for anything but healing. Self healing is already way too limited in DDN, if you let hit dice be spent on other things, you just make a cleric that much more vital to the group, because access to magical healing opens up the characters to being able to use more offense. Given I don't want to see clerics be any more mandatory than they already are, the answer to that is no.
Desperation moves requiring both specific triggers and being less accurate means they'll rarely be used. And thus aren't really a good counterpart/compensation to making CS dice encounter based, especially without boosting up the effectiveness of CS abilities and giving more dice.
Personally, I'd like to see something like this:
-A character can double his CS dice available for one turn. Doing so fatigues the fighter, reducing his available CS dice by 1 until he can take a short rest.
-A character can tripple his CS dice available for one turn. Doing so exhausts the fighter, reducing his available CS dice by 1 until he can take a long rest.
-Some maneuvers cost more dice to use.
-Fighters start out with the 2 basic maneuvers, plus 3 more at level 1, and gains an additional maneuver every level.
This allows for a couple of things.
1) The Fighter stays at-will for people who want to use it that way.
1a) Even players who don't care for at-will only but don't want to bother with all of the other maneuvers can use a daily effect for just lots of damage/lots of soak. Getting 3x your parry dice can be a solid emergency "save my skin" ability, for example.
2) Fighters gain access to Encounter/Daily abilities that run from the same resource, allowing for having those types of abilities without breaking versimillitude.
3) As the Fighter uses his more potent abilities, he wears down. If a Fighter uses his daily ability at level 1, that's all he can do for the day. At level 5, if he uses a daily, he will still have an extra die left he can use, but he is noticeably weaker for the rest of the day. Again this helps with versimillitude, as it shows that the effort put into these abilities tired the character out.
4) It allows for lower level Encounter/Daily abilities to become easier to use at higher levels. A level 1 daily would be at will by level 9-10, and could be used as an encounter ability by level 5.
5) It allows for more potent abilities at high levels that can never become at-will. If CS dice caps at 5 dice, a maneuver that costs 15 dice is going to be the epitome of what a character can do. You can make an ability like that something really epic, on par with the power of a 10th level spell.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:47AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Desperation moves requiring both specific triggers and being less accurate means they'll rarely be used. And thus aren't really a good counterpart/compensation to making CS dice encounter based, especially without boosting up the effectiveness of CS abilities and giving more dice.
That is actually on my list anyway.. as well as boosting those Desparation moves on there own... they need calibrated I mentioned that... how much accuracy lost? doesnt even need to be huge (it could be token flavor).
Personally, I'd like to see something like this:
-A character can double his CS dice available for one turn. Doing so fatigues the fighter, reducing his available CS dice by 1 until he can take a short rest.
I mentioned it trippling it for that but... why for all your dice not just a specific use?
-A character can tripple his CS dice available for one turn. Doing so exhausts the fighter, reducing his available CS dice by 1 until he can take a long rest.
instead of using HD eh.... we get more of the gimp effect mentioned... which I only want a little of
-Some maneuvers cost more dice to use.
Already assumed - think the devs have mentioned this.
-Fighters start out with the 2 basic maneuvers, plus 3 more at level 1, and gains an additional maneuver every level.
The numbers game of how many maneuvers they have is a separate thing for me.
This allows for a couple of things.
1) The Fighter stays at-will for people who want to use it that way.
1a) Even players who don't care for at-will only but don't want to bother with all of the other maneuvers can use a daily effect for just lots of damage/lots of soak. Getting 3x your parry dice can be a solid emergency "save my skin" ability, for example.
Thats right.. almost like ahem self healing but with an immediate flavor (which is one reason the HD expenditure imight be balanced around ;p)
2) Fighters gain access to Encounter/Daily abilities that run from the same resource, allowing for having those types of abilities without breaking versimillitude.
Everyone has HD though.
3) As the Fighter uses his more potent abilities, he wears down. If a Fighter uses his daily ability at level
1, that's all he can do for the day. At level 5, if he uses a daily, he will still have an extra die left he can use, but he is noticeably weaker for the rest of the day. Again this helps with versimillitude, as it shows that the effort put into these abilities tired the character out.
Thats theidea of Heroic Exertion but most exertion doesnt last all day I can get damn winded and recover after a few minutes.. (or I could when I was young and athletic.)
4) It allows for lower level Encounter/Daily abilities to become easier to use at higher levels. A level 1 daily would be at will by level 9-10, and could be used as an encounter ability by level 5.
Yup
5) It allows for more potent abilities at high levels that can never become at-will. If CS dice caps at 5 dice, a maneuver that costs 15 dice is going to be the epitome of what a character can do. You can make an ability like that something really epic, on par with the power of a 10th level spell.
And shazam yes.. you might have convinced me on allowing CS dice for a Daily effect too.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:49AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Has an unfortunate smell of "gimp yourself to do something cool".
Its choice drivin.
If you do the exertion defensively you may prevent taking damage that would have taken you or an ally down and out of the action... worth a gimp? or offensively you may shorten the fight by taking out an adversary quicker... resulting in fewer rounds that you even need the CS dice.
Expending the HD is the Daily resource in there which doesnt gimp and its more strategic.
Id rather the Fighter be able to do cool things without having to gimp themselves.
Further if you can finish the fight with the move you arent gimped at all... its making choices.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 13, 2012 - 8:53AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Desperation moves on a fighter?
Hey? C'mon c'mon. Ret's Go! Okay!
Seriously, like the idea.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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