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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:26PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
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Ahh. Yes, I think I see where we read that differently. I have added punctuation to illustrate the differences
You read it as "I can totally see how some people think of it as just a game, where everyone has equal say in the direction (like a collaboration)."
ie, "just a game" and "like a collaboration" as two things being compared
I read it as "I can totally see how some people think of it as just "a game where everyone has equal say in the direction" (like a collaboration)."
ie, "just" meaning "simply" and "a game ... (like a collaboration)" as the object being described.
I can't say what the original poster intended to mean, but I can certainly see where our reading it diverged.
Tricksy language, English. Nasty punctuations, confuses us it does my preciousss...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:26PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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here's no impetus to create a "work of art" with a collaboration..
Bull crapola... Not at all like a board game... what does collaborating have to do with board games? You arent creating anything in a board game...
Collaboration can be very much an attempt to create a work of art and is always about achieving something as a group that cant be done singularly.
The DM as sole artist puts me in passive watch it mode.... boo...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:27PM
#33
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I disagree that we need mechanics to break down this social divide.
We DO need better clarity in the rules and systems to reduce pressure on the DM and remove the "DM may I" syndrome from the game, but that's not directly related to this point.
Everything from "DM as god" through to "full co-constructed world" is possible under the same rules system.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:34PM
#34
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I disagree that we need mechanics to break down this social divide.
We DO need better clarity in the rules and systems to reduce pressure on the DM and remove the "DM may I" syndrome from the game, but that's not directly related to this point.
Everything from "DM as god" through to "full co-constructed world" is possible under the same rules system.
I agree, they just need to ditch all the references to ask the DM, or where it says things like 'the players describe what they do and you tell them what happens' or any other kind of weird DM is God stuff. Then just have a section in both the PHB and the DMG that explains the different types of games, and tells everyone to talk to their DM and players to find out what kind of style the game should be...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:37PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Ahh. Yes, I think I see where we read that differently. I have added punctuation to illustrate the differences
You read it as "I can totally see how some people think of it as just a game, where everyone has equal say in the direction (like a collaboration)."
ie, "just a game" and "like a collaboration" as two things being compared
I read it as "I can totally see how some people think of it as just "a game where everyone has equal say in the direction" (like a collaboration)."
ie, "just" meaning "simply" and "a game ... (like a collaboration)" as the object being described.
I can't say what the original poster intended to mean, but I can certainly see where our reading it diverged.
Tricksy language, English. Nasty punctuations, confuses us it does my preciousss...
Sure but lets look at his other post... where somehow a collaboration is a board game? He is dissing others play styles.
To Collaborate
"to work with another or others on a joint project"
What project do you think a collaborative roleplaying might be other than a "experience".
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:43PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
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Lots of boardgames are collaborative efforts. Interestingly, most of them are also Dungeon crawlers.
I'm fairly certain he wasn't intending to diss your playstyle any more than is required by expressing an opinion that a different one is preferable.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:44PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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I think the problem here is seeing players expecting to be able to use published options as spoiled babies, as opposed to player empowerment and DM-is-not-God as a valid preference with over a 10 year history in D&D.
(citation needed)
I'm fairly certain you can't back that up, since in 3E, the DM was just as much omnipotent and in control as in 2E.
It has a very long history in tabletop RPGs, no question. But in D&D, it's basically new in 4E.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:48PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Lots of boradgames are collaborative efforts.
In what fashion? I roll a die and move the monopoly piece around the board (the VAST MAJORIITY) is not somebody making a project.... its a bull poo comparison.
Again asserting one thing is something utterly different than it is.
The fact that there are a very few non-competitive board games... which is exactly what collaborative implies should be a sign.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:52PM
#39
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I think the problem here is seeing players expecting to be able to use published options as spoiled babies, as opposed to player empowerment and DM-is-not-God as a valid preference with over a 10 year history in D&D.
(citation needed)
I'm fairly certain you can't back that up, since in 3E, the DM was just as much omnipotent and in control as in 2E.
It has a very long history in tabletop RPGs, no question. But in D&D, it's basically new in 4E.
It was a cultural phenomenon in 3E. 3E players came to expect to be able to use whatever was in books, core or non-core. The books didn't enable or encourage it, but it still happened to a significant degree.
...whatever
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:52PM
#40
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I play 4E where the rules are so finely crafted and balanced that I as a DM don't have to worry about arbitration except in the rare case of something not being covered and then I just flip to page 42 in that case. This allows me to free up brain power for story telling, play acting, NPC and monster optimization, plot arcing, and other things that are actually the DMs job. In my view a carpenter that has to constantly forge their own tools is much worse off than one that buys their pre-made tools cheaply at a local store or online. Guess which carpenter gets more done?
Moderated by
ORC_Arjac
on Oct 11, 2012 - 07:06PM
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