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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 10:29AM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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As it is now, there is NO bonus for two handed use of melee weapons in terms of damage.
this is completely wrong as it is a matter of basic physics that you have better leverage with two hands instead of one.
So for two handed melee weapons use bonus damage from strength should be str modifier +1 or one and a half modifier(whatever comes out higher).
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 10:32AM
#2
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The bonus is built into the weapon. 2-handed weapons have a larger damage size (or some other feature like reach).
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 10:38AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Two handed weapons have better damage dice or reach though.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 10:39AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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e: wrong forum. Mello's answer about die sizes is accurate, though. Also, appealing to physics in a game about magic is silly 
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 10:40AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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The bonus is built into the weapon. 2-handed weapons have a larger damage size (or some other feature like reach).
how would you then treat long sword swung with two hands? same damage? Or mace? I guarantee you that the effect is bigger.
Or lets say Ogre with 22 str grabs a human sized greatsword. he can wield it effectively with one hand for 1d12+6 dmg. but what if he grabs it with two hands(the grip IS long enough)? damage still the same?
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 10:46AM
#6
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The bonus is built into the weapon. 2-handed weapons have a larger damage size (or some other feature like reach).
how would you then treat long sword swung with two hands? same damage? Or mace? I guarantee you that the effect is bigger.
Or lets say Ogre with 22 str grabs a human sized greatsword. he can wield it effectively with one hand for 1d12+6 dmg. but what if he grabs it with two hands(the grip IS long enough)? damage still the same?
I'd bump the die size. 1d12->2d6.
But i don't think there's any rules to cover that (yet).
guides
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 11:19AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2006
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I think 1/2 the Strength modifier should be added to any weapon attack made with a 2-handed weapon (or a 1-handed weapon swung with 2 hands). But I also advocate for more DPR with Two-Weapon Fighting, so take it for what you will.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 11:31AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2012
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I think you could make a strong argument that two hands isn't really helping you as much as you'd like in a combat situation. I'm not saying you can't make the other argument, because it is easy to make.
A human wielding a longsword in one hand can put 'less' behind the swing than he can with two hands. We all agree with that. However, it is not as if these combats are simulating someone taking a longsword and making baseball bat haymaker swings with them. So this is the argument that I could use to do away with the two handed argument. Just because an Ogre can wield it in one hand or two, the weapon is simply so small that the amount of useful force behind the item is small. This is perhaps the same reason STR shouldn't add to finesse weapons.
I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, but hopefully my argument makes some sense.
Maybe instead of 1/2 str as an add, perhaps just a flat +1 (or die size increaes as suggested earlier). That has no scaling and very predictable results/issues.
Does this mean a dwarf could pick up a weapon and wield it in two hand for two die size increases. Very interesting result - eh?
Currently running a playtest, weekly, online D&D Next Session using a virtual table system called roll20.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 11:38AM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I think you could make a strong argument that two hands isn't really helping you as much as you'd like in a combat situation. I'm not saying you can't make the other argument, because it is easy to make.
A human wielding a longsword in one hand can put 'less' behind the swing than he can with two hands. We all agree with that. However, it is not as if these combats are simulating someone taking a longsword and making baseball bat haymaker swings with them. So this is the argument that I could use to do away with the two handed argument. Just because an Ogre can wield it in one hand or two, the weapon is simply so small that the amount of useful force behind the item is small. This is perhaps the same reason STR shouldn't add to finesse weapons.
I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, but hopefully my argument makes some sense.
Maybe instead of 1/2 str as an add, perhaps just a flat +1 (or die size increaes as suggested earlier). That has no scaling and very predictable results/issues.
Does this mean a dwarf could pick up a weapon and wield it in two hand for two die size increases. Very interesting result - eh?
It doesn't only mean bashing with full strength. You simply have more control over weapon with two handed grip for either more powerfull or more precise strikes, both mean in D&D math more damage.
It can be one and a half mod, +1 fixed, bigger damage die but it mush show that is better to two handed grip than single handed one.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 11:41AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2007
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You do not have more control if the haft of the weapon does not accommodate the second hand.
In the case of the long sword the second hand offers no benifit and in fact hinders your range of motion.
Brave Knights of W.T.F. Gryphon Helm Winner.
Edition wars kill players, this will kill Dungeons and Dragons.
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