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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 7:51PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 19, 2012
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Does it really matter if they are or not?
So long as kobolds believe that are and have their own lore that relates to a draconic heritage (whether it is true or not), then I'm happy to settle for koblds being level 1 fodder that believe they are decended from dragons.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 9:08PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
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You also made it seem like (in the previous Wandering Monsters article) there are no D&D precedents for kobolds being descended from dragons, writing:
"The most contentious part of the description seems to have been the kobold claim to dragon descent. That's one of those things that has worked its way into my mind (and not just mine) without ever really being explicitly stated in the core rules, at least not that I could find."
You asked what D&D players think. Well, D&D players have spoken. Please listen to them.
Races of the Dragon was not a core book, it was a supplement.
The majority prefer the issue not be specified.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 10, 2012 - 9:26PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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The majority tends to be a rather crude and easily minterprested measuring stick.
Before you factor in ignorance and poor presentation.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 12:00AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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That background should be optional, but I accept the idea kobolds were created, transformered (by magic) or "domesticated" by dragons to be their slaves or servants (and sometime worshippers).
A question = Gobling + Kobold = D&D Gremlin? (it was canon, wasn´t it?) I imagine it like goblin with the reptilian template from "Savage Species" sourcebook. Something like the kobolds from Capcom D&D videogames (Tower of Doom and Shadow over Mystara), monkey-like little fays with horns.
I think the most popular monster humanoids are who can be the archenemy race of som PC race, for example orcs and drows for elves, gobling and kobolds to haflings and gnomes, giants to dwarfs, githyankis to githzerai.
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 1:41AM
#15
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In edition 1 and 2, they were small lizardmen. However, strangely enough they were also considered to be goblins. This was never particularly well explained-- except that "goblinoid" just seemed to sort of mean basic, mundane badguy demi-humans.
Kobold is Deutsch (German) for Goblin (or Imp). (Goblinoid)
They were often blamed for poisoning mines. (Trap and Tunnel association)
They were also sometimes shapechangers like many other fey (early D&D was grabbing names of faerie critters and inventing new roles for them at rnadom, so a loss of shape changing is consitent with typical early and current D&D name appropriation) and the domestic varieties were actually very helpful (yeah, not good fodder for monsters, so also discarded or split off into other fae)
There were many breeds of mythical Kobolds. I'm guessing D&D latched onto the mine dwelling ore poisoners.
I have an answer for you, it may even be the truth.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 2:48AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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We agree the canon D&D kobolds are repltlians humanoid, with possible link to dragons, but I would like a open door to a second link, the fays, because the were in the faywild or kobolds were enemies of races like gnomes.
Some kobold subrace may be fay humanoids who were changed by magic forces.
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 3:40AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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In edition 1 and 2, they were small lizardmen. However, strangely enough they were also considered to be goblins. This was never particularly well explained-- except that "goblinoid" just seemed to sort of mean basic, mundane badguy demi-humans.
Kobold is Deutsch (German) for Goblin (or Imp). (Goblinoid)
They were often blamed for poisoning mines. (Trap and Tunnel association)
They were also sometimes shapechangers like many other fey (early D&D was grabbing names of faerie critters and inventing new roles for them at rnadom, so a loss of shape changing is consitent with typical early and current D&D name appropriation) and the domestic varieties were actually very helpful (yeah, not good fodder for monsters, so also discarded or split off into other fae)
There were many breeds of mythical Kobolds. I'm guessing D&D latched onto the mine dwelling ore poisoners.
Yes, the name is German for goblin... but they were also particularly nasty versions of goblins, not little petty wimps that a child could easily kill.
If I were going to reinvent the wheel, I probably would have used "Goblin" in the place of "Goblinoid" as the family name and called the small ones Kobolds.
But then-- hobgoblins are supposed to be friendly, prankster goblins. The hob part has the same connotation as it does in "hobbit". But the whole idea of a good race of goblins (outside of halflings), sort of like the drow, duegar or dark gnome of the goblin race, was never really explored. Well, someone too a stab at it with the Bhukka thing in the end of 3rd edition. But, I guess if someone did go for it-- they could always still call it a Lutin or Dokkaebi (French and Korean words for hobgoblin).
But, returning to the orgiinal point. If goblinoids were clearly mammalian, it was very odd that something that was being described as very reptillian was being grouped in as a "goblinoid" even if the name attached to the concept was really just the German word for "goblin".
I mean if one does any bit of research on what a "Troglodyte" is outside of D&D, one must wonder how the word ever became attached to lizardmen.
We agree the canon D&D kobolds are repltlians humanoid, with possible link to dragons, but I would like a open door to a second link, the fays, because the were in the faywild or kobolds were enemies of races like gnomes.
Some kobold subrace may be fay humanoids who were changed by magic forces.
If any humanoid is going to be linked to Fey, it is the Goblin that ought to be in line right behind the Elf (even if the hobgoblin has rejected the heritage as throughly, the fey spirit is very much alive in goblins and bugbears). But-- that is assuming the Feywild stops being an Arcane plane like in 4E and goes back to being the source of chaotic nature-magic.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:06AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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Goblins are nearer that kobolds of fay background, but kobolds could be descendent of survivors from a faywild failed invansion by khaastas. They can be linked because being past enemies of fay people.
"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)
Book 13 Anaclet 23
Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 6:09AM
#19
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But-- that is assuming the Feywild stops being an Arcane plane like in 4E and goes back to being the source of chaotic nature-magic.
Yes.. please disconnect Feywild(or whatver it is to be called) from Arcane.. fey are chaotic nature spirits, not arcane...
If Feywild must be connected to a 'powersource' it should be Primal.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 11, 2012 - 7:07AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2006
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Why did I grow up (as a player 30 yrs ago) always thinking kobolds were dog-men with all this "dragonesque" description laying about...
Browncoats Unite...
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