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I feel like these descriptions are a bit too narrow for my tastes.

The references to the particularly shade of tone of the skin seems unnecessarily specific. Why lock into one particular shade? If one had to describe what color the skin of a human is, the skin of a dwarf is or the skin of an elf is, I don't think one would commit themselves to one particular narrow banded tone of color. No, what we have here are more clearly a single member of each race.

Think about how you would describe the range of humans-- skin tone is usually a light brown color but ranged from pasty white to jet black with tones ranging from reddish peach to a muted olive. 
Eyes are usually brown ranging from light reddish and yellowish browns to dark almost black, those that hail from colder regions tend to have blue eyes ranging from light silvery gray to deep ocean colors and those in between often have eyes with hazel and greenish tones.
Hair color is usually black or dark brown that lightens with exposure to sunlight with tones ranging from mossy brown to mahogany  Those from colder regions have lighter hair that at the lightest can be orange-red, gold or yellow.

And when one gets into size... well, even without accounting for gigantism or dwarfish, the tallest humans are about 30% taller than the shortest. Which can mean they weight 3x as much without even accounting for modern obesity rates. 

And all this physical difference within humans... one need not forget that the entirity of our species has less genetic diversity than single packs of most animals on the planet. Humans just have a much more limited range of physical difference than a lot of species would show.


Now I think this is somewhat accounted for when it comes to dwarfs, elfs, and halflings. Well, at least until elfs are overly divided into subraces with different special abilities to make them the elite race for every class. However, barring that-- I think it is generally accepted that they all demonstrate the same range of diversity within their races as humans do.

Goblinoids ought to be no different. In fact, for the fast-breeding goblins there might be an even wider range of physical differences. As such, instead of describing and insisting on a single shade of skin, the range should be opened up. Instead of insisting on a particular size, a range should be given. If the average Hobgoblin is 6' tall, then that should mean they range from about 5' to nearly 7' tall. Meanwhile Bugbears out to range from 6' tall to 8' tall.

This means that there will be overlap between the smaller Bugbears and the bigger Hobgoblins. If this is the case then they need to be clearly distinct from one another.

The next thing to consider is that different individuals in these races will have different roles.

Yes, if one is in the city or traveling along a road then a gang of goblin brigands will almost certainly be the standard role. Not every one of them is going to necessarily take up this role. Some of them are going to have to have non-combat roles and you might have the odd one that picks up a few magic skills or figures out how to curry favor with gods, but so long as they live in an area where they can eek out a life preying on individuals hauling goods, I think this isn't unreasonable.

But then what about once you start moving into the wilderness? Well, those previous types just don't work out so well. That's when you ought to get the really interesting ones. 
Wild, lightly-armored spear-wielding goblins streaking into battle atop big, nasty wolves.
Mad shamans calling down the curses and powers of their gods and other dark spirits upon their enemies.
Mystical druids or rangers embodying the darker aspects of nature that can turn the forest upon their enemies and unleash upon them giant venomous spiders and other horrific monstrosities of nature.

The concept of goblin ought to be wide enough to embrace and embody all these concepts. Whether rogue, sorcerer, warrior, barbarian, ranger, druid or shaman/cleric... the basic goblin race needs to be flexible enough to bring them all on.

 The hobgoblin warrior looks great. But its kind of got a problem-- what is described is big, bad hobgoblin lord sitting in his fortress in his ornate armor. When I see the picture I have to think either major NPC villain or possibly even a PC in mid-level tier. And while I would love to have them as PCs (obviously the major problem is that they aren't really so distinct from humans), I don't think that's what one wants to go for in terms of describing the whole race.

Do you know what I see when I set the scene at this guys fortress? This guy is the lord. But he is going to have before him his trusted circle of trusted lieutenants  perhaps each the best with their chosen weapon. Probably representing both genders almost equally. He is going to have his his squirrely  but tactically genius adviser by his side arrogantly, but nonetheless respectfully giving him his opinion. Perhaps this adviser can use sorcery  perhaps he is just a master of battle tactics. He'll have his 'lovely', refined wife, a fine warrior of her own right when she need be, dressed in wears as ornate as his armor overseeing the training of his children by one of the very few members of his clan who has managed to survive into old age.
In his courtyard, his sergeant is rigidly overseeing the drilling of his spear-men and archers. A priest of Tyr oversees the training and calls blessings upon them to strengthen the troops ever more. Meanwhile, nearby, his blacksmiths are hard at work churning out new weapons and armor for the troops while another oversees work crews hard at work ever expanding and improving his fortress. Further out, lay his fields with farmers working hard to churn out as much food as they can in the shortest amount of time. Between those fields lies a road and along it returns his merchants having returned from a nearby city after having traded away goods his troops captured that were of little use to them for those that would be. One can count that the numbers of young but skilled soldiers returning with them have decreased a bit-- some having died in pitched battle, but others probably having stayed behind in the city looking for mercenary work. Perhaps some of those who did will return some day having gathered gold and glory to add to that of the clan. Perhaps others will create fortresses of their own when they gain enough power to do so. Hopefully they won't forget their allegiance to him when they do.

And everyone in that image... would be hobgoblins. Yes, fighters, warlords, clerics, brigands and possibly even wizards... they ought to have them all in addition to typical non-combat roles. So, yes, what is here is a good representative of a hobgoblin-- but he is only one of a whole society of the race and the article seems to define the race all too narrowly to remember that.

Now... Bugbears... a little trickier for me to picture. At first they were almost more like animals than humanoids. But they have become more and more refined over the years. At this point I am not really sure that Bugbears are any more different from Hobgoblins than Germanic Barbarians were different from the Romans. And maybe not even that much difference. But if that were the case then wouldn't Bugbear and Hobgoblin be the same race and if one chooses their class as Barbarian then they are definitely a Bugbear and if one chooses Warlord or Paladin, they are definitely a Hobgoblin.

I really feel that sticky point needs strong redefinition. Until it is clearly defined what would make a small Bugbear and a large Hobgoblin as distinctly different as a large Goblin would be compared to a small Hobgoblin, it feels like they are an unnecessary inclusion. If they are just marginally more feral, hairy and wild Hobgoblins right now, then why not just go all out and make them truly different by making them more the size and power of Ogres?

Oct 10, 2012 -- 3:07PM, Hebitsuikaza wrote:

And all this physical difference within humans... one need not forget that the entirity of our species has less genetic diversity than single packs of most animals on the planet. Humans just have a much more limited range of physical difference than a lot of species would show.

I think you mean that, given human's comparative limited genetic diversity (Few Genotypes), we have a very wide range of apparent external differences (Many Phenotypes). Most animals have little in the way to distinguish them visually as individuals. We are much more like a pack of mixed dogs than a pride of lions.

The appearance of various phenotypes in dogs, cats, rabbits, ferrets, various pet rodents... well, all domesticated animals greatly exceeds the variety that appear in humans. Although some of this may have been the result of intentional breeding on behalf of humans, many of these animals were not bred with the goal of producing specific phenotypes  Only when bred for a specific purpose does the appearance become quite similar.

Thus, a sentient species capable of altering its environment that need not blend in with its environment or be bred for a very limited and specific specialty will show at least the same variety as humans.

But, really, the point I am trying to get at is that one won't make a good race design by dictating a single tone and shade of skin color and a choice of two eye colors in order to keep the three subraces perfectly segregated by coloration.

Nor should one think of the race as it appears in only a single class or only a single role. If they are races they will have a wide variety of roles within their societies and their appearances will almost certainly change quite a bit from region to region-- and, as they gain freedom of mobility across the world, members from various regions would mix and produce even more variety.

Instead of focusing on a single ideal defining individual and strictly defining the whole race as exactly like the individual, it is better to consider things more amorphously and how a handful of different members within the race's society might appear and how they would have different functions and roles in the society.

And then one would describe the race in more general terms talking about ranges of colors of features, ranges of size, ranges of common features and the types of roles they tend to excel in and which kinds of roles their tribes/clans would be comparatively poor at or not have at all.

Although I think a good step was taken in considering how they should clearly differ from orcs and kobolds as well as how they differ from one another in addition to how they differ from humans, elfs and dwarfs.