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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Help me fix the beast mastery for the Ranger...
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Switch to Forum Live View Help me fix the beast mastery for the Ranger and make this concept work
8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 10:19AM #1
Humafan
Date Joined: Sep 13, 2009
Posts: 110
Hi everyone,

I want to play a hengeyokai with pets.  Here is what I've got so far...


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Jeet, level 3
Hengeyokai, Ranger/Shaman
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Companion Spirit (Hybrid) Option: Watcher Spirit (Hybrid)
Hybrid Shaman Option: Hybrid Shaman Will
Hybrid Talent Option: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style Option: Beast Mastery (Hybrid)
Animal Form Option: Cat (Acrobatics)
Beast Companion Type: Bear
Associate: Trained Displacer Beast
Inherent Bonuses
Athlete (+2 to Athletics)
Theme: Fey Beast Tamer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 13, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 13, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8


AC: 17 Fort: 12 Ref: 16 Will: 16
HP: 35 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +12, Athletics +8, Perception +10, Stealth +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +1, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +0, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +2, Heal +5, History +1, Insight +5, Intimidate +0, Nature +5, Religion +1, Streetwise +0, Thievery +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Hengeyokai Utility: Nature's Mask
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Shaman Feature: Call Spirit Companion
Shaman Feature: Healing Spirit
Shaman Feature: Speak with Spirits
Beast Basic Attack: Beast Melee Basic Attack
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Shaman Attack 1: Claws of the Eagle
Ranger Attack 1: Synchronized Strike
Shaman Attack 1: Spirit of the Healing Flood
Ranger Utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Shaman Attack 3: Infectious Spark

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Melee Training (Dexterity)

ITEMS
Raise Beast Companion
Longbow x1
Totem
Quarterstaff
Leather Armor x1
====== End ======




My DM is very open to houseruling things to help character concepts come to life.  I have asked him if he'd be willing to allow melee training to function on any strength based weapon attack so that I can effectively use powers like synchronized strike.  He is open to that.

As he is open to house rules, how would you fix the beast mastery option?  I know it's accuracy is majorly lacking.  Is there a simple fix you would make to get it on par?  I've considered going sentinel instead of ranger, but I would really like to have some decent damage output (not super optimized, just decent).

Finally, I'm open to all other suggestions.  I haven't selected any magical equipment as I'm not sure what the DM will be allowing.  It may be a low magic world with inherent bonuses (which kind of works out for me since I'll be juggling a totem, bow, and melee weapons...)

Thanks! 
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 10:33AM #2
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,458
Accuracy isn't lacking (though it's not high).  Damage is lacking.  Enhancment bonus to damage is the major missing link.  So if you let the beast get any bonuses you would have with your weapon* it should be on par.

*With the exception of expertise and enhancement bonus to hit.  Those just keep you on par.


Basicly, you want to treat the beast as a +2 off-hand weapon (raptors are +3).
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 4:20PM #3
Mengu74
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 3,232
My fix was, whatever the character's MBA attack and damage were, that's what I had the player use for the beast. Easier tracking, better scaling. In your case, RBA attack and damage are probably more appropriate, just use those numbers for the beast's MBA.

But your character has a few other problems, most notably, you need a way to use your bow as an implement, or figure out a way to free action draw/stow your totem.

And as a side note, while having a menagerie is cool from a RP stand point, in combat, dropping 4 minis (you and 3 companions) on the table is rather annoying for everyone else, who are trying to position their characters to do what they want to do, not to mention your turns take quite a bit longer than everyone else's as you try to figure out where best to move your pets.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 5:34PM #4
EasyT
Date Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 1,710
Is the Enhancement bonus really the only major thing lacking in beast damage? I was kind of thinking they'd still fall behind due to the lack of an Item bonus to damage.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 5:42PM #5
Keithric
  • Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 5,148
My vote was to just scale them the same as every other monster got scaled... adding an extra 1/2 level as a bonus to damage to them.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 8:16PM #6
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,225
Eh, you SHOULD pay a damage penalty in echange for the extra OAs and "sack of HP"
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 8:51PM #7
WEContact
Date Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 1,947
You lose Prime Shot.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 8:58PM #8
Alcestis
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2009
Posts: 7,896
Beast "OA"s take your Immediate. Without a damage boost on the beast they are not worth taking.

Which leaves Prime Shot vs extra mini on the board+hp.

I'd take Prime Shot, at least until Beastmasters become immortal.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 09, 2012 - 9:43PM #9
mellored
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 19,458

Oct 9, 2012 -- 5:34PM, EasyT wrote:

Is the Enhancement bonus really the only major thing lacking in beast damage? I was kind of thinking they'd still fall behind due to the lack of an Item bonus to damage.


Depends on what kind of game you are playing.

If there's a bladesinger, o-ssassin, vampire, or any of the other "lesser" classes.  Then just adding the enchantments bonus is fine.

If you want to put it on par with the normal ranger class, then yes, you need more. 


I actually like Mengu74's suggestion better.  Mainly because it's simpler.

My fix was, whatever the character's MBA attack and damage were, that's what I had the player use for the beast


*Assuming your not using a special MBA, like eldrich strike or dragonfrost + reapers touch...

guides Show
my builds Show

F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter.  With some warlord stuff.  Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch   Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1.  If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation.  5 of these will end anything.  Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways.  Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit.  Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones.  Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 10, 2012 - 12:49PM #10
EasyT
Date Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 1,710
The suggestions from Mengu74 and Keithric both work well. I lean slightly towards Keithric's (or something very similar) because I think it gives the beast a little more individuality and distinction from the character. That said, I don't really have a dog in this fight. *ahem* So to speak.
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