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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 1:09AM
#81
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Nice Strawman. See if you can find anywhere in my posts where I said I want magic items to be random. I also specifically said that I would not be against them making tons of boring items for you to play with. Try responding to my arguments and not ones you fictionalize.
you said you dont want them balanced, that means they will be randomly powerfull, what did you think balanced means?
This is false. I have already stated another way for us to have what we want.
no you said "guidelines", guidelines only help master DMs who have perfect mastery of the sysytem. they requre the DM to know how every item will work for every member, to know that even though item A is a level 5 sword it is much better then item B that is also a level 5 sword. the game must first work for new DMs who are also new to the system. simple guidelines cant do this.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes.
Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 1:10AM
#82
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Just had a player in my group have his necromancer (with an Artisan background, he is a jeweler looking to make a jewel that would hold his soul and make him an immortal Lich) make a ruby amulet and cast "Continual Light" on it for it to glitter better.
I asked for an Int and Dex rolls for crafting and he scored over 20 on both-
...so I rolled for a random minor quality on the table they provided, and it said "key".
I declared to him that he was following a design he found etched in his spellbook (the Jeweler's Tome he found in his master's attic).
Now I have a new side-quest idea, and I'm a happy DM.
So yeah, the new magic Item tables are pure awesome.
-Ashtoret
one thing to keep in mind is that the current rules only work for one way of playing, not many. you cant play eberon with them, nor high magic.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes.
Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 5:47AM
#83
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However, I do think that items granting at-will bonuses to attack rolls and defences DO have to be balanced against the wider maths of bounded accuracy. If only one PC is getting +3 to hit at-will with no drawbacks then you either enter an arms race for other PCs to catch up or that one player might dominate fights a bit too much.
Okay, this has come up numerous times, and it deserves specific treatment.
Imbalance in PC loot within a specific party is not a system issue.
Seriously. This is very important. No matter what state items take, if a DM hands out items carelessly without thought for fairness to the party, then yes, there can be unfair situations in the party. That's not a system issue, nor is it reason to curtail the potency of magic items.
The solution to party imbalance is to be a better DM. The solution is not to water down the magic item system in the hopes of presenting it. It's not only not going to work, it's going to make things worse for everyone else who does actually know what they're doing.
Yes, we should all become masters DMs or else not play 5E...
"A Good DM can..." fallacy strikes again...
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 7:13AM
#84
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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But if the DM hands out items with a great deal of thought, but is lacking system mastery sufficient to understand how much power different items represent - because the magic-item list lacks guidance as to how powerful the items are - that is a system issue.
.....
Are you purposefully not reading what I'm writing?
The entire point is that the guidance on how to use them is essential. Of course without it things fall apart. That's why we're emphasizing just how much it needs to be in.
If you ignore half of what I'm saying, I'm not surprised it doesn't make sense.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 7:38AM
#85
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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you said you dont want them balanced, that means they will be randomly powerfull, what did you think balanced means?
Your logic fail is.................amazing. Unbalanced does not equal random. If I create a +25 sword, it is extremely unbalanced. It is also completely and utterly as I intended with not a hint of random anywhere in it.
no you said "guidelines", guidelines only help master DMs who have perfect mastery of the sysytem.
Yay! More great logic fail!
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 7:39AM
#86
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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But if the DM hands out items with a great deal of thought, but is lacking system mastery sufficient to understand how much power different items represent - because the magic-item list lacks guidance as to how powerful the items are - that is a system issue.
.....
Are you purposefully not reading what I'm writing?
The entire point is that the guidance on how to use them is essential. Of course without it things fall apart. That's why we're emphasizing just how much it needs to be in.
If you ignore half of what I'm saying, I'm not surprised it doesn't make sense.
They can't win the argument unless they ignore it, or pee pee on it.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 28, 2012 - 12:40PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2008
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I see a few... overlooked facts in many of these discussions about magic items
1) many people are terrified of what will happen if a +3 or higher weapon gets into players hands, along with other items like belts of giant strength. Now I might have missed some entries, but currently we do not have belts of giant strength and the only +3 weapons I can find are The Arrow of Dragon Slaying, which being a single arrow and being so much more effective in only particualr situations will probably not be a major concern, The Holy Avenger Attuned to a Paladin, very specific grouping 'd say, and a Legendary item, and the Vorpal sword , attuned, which is also a legendary weapon. I'd say 80% of items PC's will recieve will be +1, which no one seems to be worried about breaking the system
2) some people seem concerned there are no guidelines for weapon power per level... but there is. On page 2 of the Magic Items pdf we are given a chart that says until players reach level X they probably should not find items of this level. For example these legendary weapons I pointed out, should be introduced no earlier than level 9 (which seems to indicate we are back to max level being 20, not a fan of that). Also, if you are rolling on random charts, there is still a very small chance the players will even recieve a legendary weapon. So while we are not told that the Holy Avenger sword is considered level 10, we are told it is probably best not to give it to characters before level 9.
3)This also helps deal with the issue of "is +1 weaker or better than +d6", sort of. We do seem to ahve a system similiar to 3.X where any magic weapon or armor is imiediately +1, then they can recieve other bonuses such as damage or what have you. Also of note the Flame Tongue and Frostbrand swords, which are classic weapons that deal additional damage are rare and very rare, and have additional effects beyond the damage. The Flame Tongue acts like a torch as well as dealing an addtional 2d6. Frostbrand grants fire resistance, shines when in freezing temeratures, and can douse nonmagical flames, as well as deal d6 extra damage. This tells me that the developers probably are leaning towrds additional damage only being lent to powerful weapons that also have a few other abilities and are typically rare. If you wanted a sword or axe which only dealt additiona; damage, no other effect including a +1, I'd rank it as either uncommon or rare landing it in an introductory level of around 3-5.
One thing I do have an issue with personally, is that there are no charts or anything for building more powerful random weapons. A +1 sword that is a key to a secret vault, sure we got that. A +1 sword that deals lightning damage or is pariticulary powerful against elementals? there is no way to randomly create items like this. I understand these items are powerful enough to warrant extra thought before introducing them, but I would like a chart for adding these addtional properties as it might spark some ideas for the DM.
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7 months ago ::
Oct 29, 2012 - 8:59PM
#88
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Personally when I run the new system I'm going to house-rule out all the +x items. Magic items should do something cool not just give you a extra + on your sheet. But sense +x will always be better than in combat than all the cool items because they work all the time so it forces people to work for the +x's even if they arn't that cool.
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