What part of guileful switch being a higher level use limited ability do you not understand?
I understand all of it.
I also understand that if it was level 1, at-will (and didn't generate extra immidiate actions), then it would still be rated lower then commander's strike.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Thought: While I've never played sports, I've heard enough people talking and watched enough movies (both sports and war) to know shouting orders in a battle/play situation is non-ideal. There's a limited number of actions you can take. Football players call the play ahead of time for that reason: because in-play is not possible.
Now, a warlord is special. So obviously he knows how to bark orders really well. But he should still have a very limited pallet to paint with each fight. For realism and for preventing choice overload.
What if we played with that a bit. Say a warlord needs to "call the plays" before a fight. They have six potential "commands" known but they pick 3 for a fight, called beforehand (role-playing the call, we don't need them actually declared in game; really they just pick). They can change calls before a fight for flexibility but can't once the fight begins. It makes them flexible yet fixed without option overload. If someone wants to be complicated they can change up their orders every fight and be tactical and plan based on what's expected. Or they can just go with a defualt and seldom change.
Their commands could be simple at-will commands or encounter commands (tricks that are cooler but only work once as the enemy won't fall for the same trick twice). There might be a limit, say no more than 2 encounter commands. Plus, at higher levels, in addition to knowing more commands the number called could increase.
Thoughts?
+1 to the overall idea. Preping the team durring a short rest fits really nicely to the whole warlord idea. As well as adding a unique mechanic to the game.
Though what about knowing a number of commands based off Int?
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Thought: While I've never played sports, I've heard enough people talking and watched enough movies (both sports and war) to know shouting orders in a battle/play situation is non-ideal. There's a limited number of actions you can take. Football players call the play ahead of time for that reason: because in-play is not possible.
Now, a warlord is special. So obviously he knows how to bark orders really well. But he should still have a very limited pallet to paint with each fight. For realism and for preventing choice overload.
What if we played with that a bit. Say a warlord needs to "call the plays" before a fight. They have six potential "commands" known but they pick 3 for a fight, called beforehand (role-playing the call, we don't need them actually declared in game; really they just pick). They can change calls before a fight for flexibility but can't once the fight begins. It makes them flexible yet fixed without option overload. If someone wants to be complicated they can change up their orders every fight and be tactical and plan based on what's expected. Or they can just go with a defualt and seldom change.
Their commands could be simple at-will commands or encounter commands (tricks that are cooler but only work once as the enemy won't fall for the same trick twice). There might be a limit, say no more than 2 encounter commands. Plus, at higher levels, in addition to knowing more commands the number called could increase.
Thoughts?
+1 This is pretty similiar to my suggestion earlier in the thread, but its a much more interesting implementation. Picking the commands on a short rest instead of daily works fine for me. Having the plan made of multiple actions fits the flavor of execution of a complex strategy much nicer.
What do you think about having Plans using two or more encounter commands that get executed in a specific order for greater benefit? I ask because I was thinking it working like a chess openning to add flavor to the mechanic.
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
Thought: While I've never played sports, I've heard enough people talking and watched enough movies (both sports and war) to know shouting orders in a battle/play situation is non-ideal. There's a limited number of actions you can take. Football players call the play ahead of time for that reason: because in-play is not possible.
Now, a warlord is special. So obviously he knows how to bark orders really well. But he should still have a very limited pallet to paint with each fight. For realism and for preventing choice overload.
What if we played with that a bit. Say a warlord needs to "call the plays" before a fight. They have six potential "commands" known but they pick 3 for a fight, called beforehand (role-playing the call, we don't need them actually declared in game; really they just pick). They can change calls before a fight for flexibility but can't once the fight begins. It makes them flexible yet fixed without option overload. If someone wants to be complicated they can change up their orders every fight and be tactical and plan based on what's expected. Or they can just go with a defualt and seldom change.
Their commands could be simple at-will commands or encounter commands (tricks that are cooler but only work once as the enemy won't fall for the same trick twice). There might be a limit, say no more than 2 encounter commands. Plus, at higher levels, in addition to knowing more commands the number called could increase.
Thoughts?
+1 to the overall idea. Preping the team durring a short rest fits really nicely to the whole warlord idea. As well as adding a unique mechanic to the game.
Though what about knowing a number of commands based off Int?
Yes and no. Having played a lot of sport, I know that Jester's first statement is incorrect with the exception of some sports. American football (and any sport that relies on a bat) relies on set plays unless (everything goes to crap or the defending team gets lucky) however, the same cannot be said for many other team sports. These other sports benefit greatly from a captain who can call plays, send players into open space or to do a specific task, or simply rally the troops so to speak. Given this, I disagree that this typifies the warlord.
I think what has been described above is a particular type of of warlord who lives by the code "Preparation = Win". However, historically some leaders were not like this and that worked to their advantage. This didn't mean they were any less effective simply because they could read the battle as it was unfolding and knew that a slight change to formation, a sudden charge or a short retreat to draw the enemy then unleash some devastaing offensive could win a battle. Communication in the field is the key. This is more a difference of those that lead from the front or by example and the master-strategist.
I'm not saying there is no merit is prepping before battle (clearly there is) but I feel a distinction should be made between warlord subclasses/types that work differently to the "set-play" warlord.
I'm not saying there is no merit is prepping before battle (clearly there is) but I feel a distinction should be made between warlord subclasses/types that work differently to the "set-play" warlord.
I agree.
So that's at 2 different ways to build a warlord. 1) TS dice. (at-wills) 2) Pre-planning (encounters).
I think the only other contentious issue thing is healing.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
I'm not saying there is no merit is prepping before battle (clearly there is) but I feel a distinction should be made between warlord subclasses/types that work differently to the "set-play" warlord.
I agree.
So that's at 2 different ways to build a warlord. 1) TS dice. (at-wills) 2) Pre-planning (encounters).
I think the only other contentious issue thing is healing.
I'm not saying there is no merit is prepping before battle (clearly there is) but I feel a distinction should be made between warlord subclasses/types that work differently to the "set-play" warlord.
I agree.
So that's at 2 different ways to build a warlord. 1) TS dice. (at-wills) 2) Pre-planning (encounters).
I think the only other contentious issue thing is healing.
Overly complex James Bond Villian Master Plan (Daily). :D
Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
