So now that it's nearly universally decided that there's room for the warlord in the game. What mechanics should they have? And what sub-classes should there be?
I see the base warlord as having 4 major features. 1) Giveing up his attack to grant an attack from someone else. (Direct the strike.) 2) let allies move more easily, based on Int. (Battlefront Shift, reorient the axis) 3) let allies fight longer, based on Cha. (Healing, THP, or fighting past 0). 4) gives bonuses/penalites to hit/damage/defense/armor (Paint the Bulls-Eye).
Tempered with moderate fighting ability (+2 to hit, medium armor, and martial weapons). That leaves you with plenty of options of how to build the warlord, including Str, Dex, or lazy.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
So now that it's nearly universally decided that there's room for the warlord in the game. What mechanics should they have? And what sub-classes should there be? I see the base warlord as having 4 major features. 1) Giveing up his attack to grant an attack from someone else. (Direct the strike. Probably uses the allies reaction.) 2) let allies move more easily, based on Int. (Battlefront Shift, reorient the axis) 3) let allies fight longer, based on Cha. (Healing, THP, or fighting past 0). 4) Moderate fighting ability (+2 to hit, medium armor, and martial weapons). That leaves you with plenty of options of how to build the warlord, including Str, Dex, or lazy.
1. I don't see it as only attack for attack, but broader. Maybe action for action. Like giving increased movement by using a move action. Still needs a broader scope. 2. Really seems to be just part of 1. 3. THP and being able to keep acting past 0 hp seem to fit the impression of the Warlord I have. 4. This could be a place to implement CS dice for the Warlord. Making use of those to implement the previous ideas. Tactically decide between improved personal combat or improved team combat. Based on what is the better tactical option.
Unless that direct the strike comes with a huge bonus it's not worth both the warlord's attack and the other guys reaction, in addition to limiting the potential to use their own class or specialty powers, which is something a warlord should never do, most of the attacking classes rely on a per round mechanic for oomph, E-dice and S-attack, so their extra hit isn't gonna be worth much more than the attack the Warlord gives up, especially in the case of a rogue whose already popped off an S-attack this round.
I think you're forgetting a couple of tricks, the warlord should also be able to 'paint' a target. Whether simply by singling him out as the poor schmuck the party's gonna kill first, or by pinning him down so the rest of the party can catch the punk in a dog-pile.
Warlord builds should eventually include the option for the classic evil warlord who uses fear as both a method of controlling his own team, and to disrupt his enemies.
Hmm... It's these conversations that are antiproductive and make me feel as though the warlord will be best presented to us in a Player's Option: Combat and Tactics splatbook.
What are we going to call the selectable build options? (Rogues have Schemes, Clerics have Domains, etc). Identifying things like that should help get us into more of a creative/shared storytelling mode and reduce our asphyxiation on the 'warlords do x mechanically which is different than y' stuff. I still believe that it's the validity of the concept that people struggle with, not the mechanics. If the concept can be concisely nailed down in a unique and compelling way, the mechanics should write themselves.
Unless that direct the strike comes with a huge bonus it's not worth both the warlord's attack and the other guys reaction, in addition to limiting the potential to use their own class or specialty powers, which is something a warlord should never do, most of the attacking classes rely on a per round mechanic for oomph, E-dice and S-attack, so their extra hit isn't gonna be worth much more than the attack the Warlord gives up, especially in the case of a rogue whose already popped off an S-attack this round.
My thoughts exactly.
I think you're forgetting a couple of tricks, the warlord should also be able to 'paint' a target. Whether simply by singling him out as the poor schmuck the party's gonna kill first, or by pinning him down so the rest of the party can catch the punk in a dog-pile.
Singling the baddy out as the poor schmuck the party's gonna kill first was a hallmark of the bard's piñata effects in 4E. -- I really like such mechanics!
I firmly believe that there should be two editions of the game; the core rules released as a "Basic" set and a more complicated expanded rules edition released as an "Expert" set. These two editions would provide separate entry points to the game; one for new players or players that want a more classic D&D game and another entry point for experienced gamers that want more options and all the other things they have come to expect from previous editions.
Also, they must release several rules modules covering the main elements of the game (i.e., classes, races, combat, magic, monsters, etc.) upon launch to further expand the game for those that still need more complexity in a particular element of the game.
This boxed set contains a simple, "bare bones" edition of the game; the core rules. It's for those that want a rules-light edition of the game that is extremely modifiable or for new players that get intimidated easily by too many rules and/or options. The Basic Set contains everything needed to play with all the "classic" D&D races (i.e., Human, Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling) and classes (i.e., Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) all the way up to maximum level (i.e., 20th Level).
The Basic boxed set contains:
Quick Start Rules A "choose your own way" adventure intended as an intro to RPGs and basic D&D terms. Player's Handbook (Softcover, 125 pages) Features rules for playing the classic D&D races and classes all the way up to 20th level. Dungeon Master's Guide (Softcover, 125 pages) Includes the basic rules for dungeon masters.
Monster Manual (Softcover, 100 pages) Includes all the classic iconic monsters from D&D.
Introductory Adventure (Keep on the Borderlands) An introductory adventure for beginning players and DMs.
Also includes:
Character Sheets Reference Sheets Set of Dice
ExpertSet
A set of hardbound rules that contains the core rules plus expanded races and classes, more spells and a large selection of optional rules modules — that is, pretty much everything that experienced players have come to expect. Each expert edition manual may be purchased separately, or in a boxed set. The Expert set includes:
Expert PHB (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus 10 playable races, 10 character classes, expanded selection of spells and rules modules for players.) Expert DMG (Hardcover, 250 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus expanded rules modules for DMs.) Expert MM (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes an expanded list of monsters and creatures to challenge characters)
Expansions
These expansion rules modules can be used with both the Basic and Expert sets. Each expansion covers one specific aspect of the game, such as character creation, combat, spells, monsters, etc.)
Hall of Heroes (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes a vast selection of playable character races and classes, new and old all in one book) Combat and Tactics (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes dozens of new and old optional rules for combat all in one book) Creature Compendium (Hardcover, 350 pages.$35 Includes hundreds of monsters, new and old all in one book) The Grimoire (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes hundreds of new and old spells all in one book)
A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on DamageShow
A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage and Hit Points
In my personal campaigns, I use the following system for damage and dying. It's a slight modification of the long-standing principles etsablished by the D&D game, only with a new definition of what 0 or less hit points means. I've been using it for years because it works really well. However, I've made some adjustments to take advantage of the D&D Next rules. I've decided to present the first part in a Q&A format for better clarity. So let's begin...
What are hit points? The premise is very simple, but often misunderstood; hit points are an abstraction that represent the character's ability to avoid serious damage, not necessarily their ability to take serious damage. This is a very important distinction. They represent a combination of skillful maneuvering, toughness, stamina and luck. Some targets have more hit points because they are physically tougher and are harder to injure...others have more because they are experienced combatants and have learned how to turn near fatal blows into mere scratches by skillful maneuvering...and then others are just plain lucky. Once a character runs out of hit points they become vulnerable to serious life-threatening injuries.
So what exactly does it mean to "hit" with a successful attack roll, then? It means that through your own skill and ability you may have wounded your target if the target lacks the hit points to avoid the full brunt of the attack. That's an important thing to keep in mind; a successful "hit" does not necessarily mean you physically damaged your target. It just means that your attack was well placed and forced the target to exert themselves in such a way as to leave them vulnerable to further attacks. For example, instead of severing the target's arm, the attack merely grazes them leaving a minor cut.
But the attack did 25 points of damage! Why did it only "graze" the target? Because the target has more than 25 hit points. Your attack forced them to exert a lot of energy to avoid the attack, but because of their combat skill, toughness, stamina and luck, they managed to avoid being seriously injured. However, because of this attack, they may not have the reserves to avoid your next attack. Perhaps you knocked them off balance or the attack left them so fatigued they lack the stamina to evade another attack. It's the DM's call on how they want to narrate the exact reason the blow didn't kill or wound the target.
Yeah, but what about "touch" attacks that rely on physical contact? Making physical contact with a target is a lot different than striking them, so these types of attacks are the exception. If a touch attack succeeds, the attacker manages to make contact with their target.
If hit points and weapon damage don't always represent actual damage to the target, then what does it represent? Think of the damage from an attack as more like a "threat level" rather than actual physical damage that transfers directly to the target's body. That is, the more damage an attack does, the harder it is to avoid serious injury. For example, an attack that causes 14 points of damage is more likely to wound the target than 3 points of damage (depending on how many hit points the target has left). The higher the damage, the greater the chance is that the target will become seriously injured. So, an attack that does 34 points of damage could be thought of as a "threat level of 34." If the target doesn't have the hit points to negate that threat, they become seriously injured.
Ok, but shouldn't armor reduce the amount of damage delivered from an attack? It does reduce damage; by making it harder for an attack to cause serious injury. A successful hit against an armored target suggests that the attack may have circumvented the target's armor by striking in a vulnerable area.
What about poison and other types of non-combat damage? Hit point loss from non-physical forms of damage represents the character spitting the poison out just in time before it takes full strength or perhaps the poison just wasn't strong enough to affect them drastically, but still weakens them. Again, it's the DMs call on how to narrate the reasons why the character avoids serious harm from the damage.
If hit points don't don't represent actual damage then how does that make sense with spells like Cure Serious Wounds and other forms of healing like healer kits with bandages? Hit points do represent some physical damage, just not serious physical damage. Healing magic and other forms of healing still affect these minor wounds just as well as more serious wounds. For example, bandaging up minor cuts and abrasions helps the character rejuvenate and relieve the pain and/or fatigue of hit point loss. The key thing to remember is that it's an abstraction that allows the DM freedom to interpret and narrate it as they see fit.
What if my attack reduces the target to 0 or less hit points? If a player is reduced to 0 or less hit points they are wounded. If a monster or NPC is reduce to 0 or less hit points they are killed.
Why are monsters killed immediately and not players? Because unless the monsters are crucial to the story, it makes combat resolution much faster. It is assumed that players immediately execute a coup de grace on wounded monsters as a finishing move.
What if a character is wounded by poison or other types of non-physical damage? If a character becomes wounded from non-combat damage they still receive the effects of being wounded, regardless if they show any physical signs of injury (i.e., internal injuries are still considered injuries).
Ok. I get it...but what happens once a character is wounded? See below.
Damage and Dying
Once a character is reduced to 0 or less hit points, they start taking real damage. In other words, their reserves have run out and they can no longer avoid taking serious damage.
Characters are fully operational as long as they have 1 hit point or more. They may have minor cuts, bruises, and superficial wounds, but they are are not impaired significantly.
Once they reach 0 or less hit points, they become Wounded (see below).That is, they have sustained a wound that impairs their ability to perform actions.
If they reach a negative amount of hit points equal or greater than their Constitution score, they are Incapacitated. This means they are in critical condition and could possibly die.
Characters will die if their hit points reach a negative amount greater than their Constitution score, plus their current level.
Unharmed: 1 hp or more Wounded: 0 hp or less Incapacitated: -(Constitution) to -(Constitution+Level) Dead: Less than -(Constitution +Level)
Wounded When the character reaches 0 or less hit points they become wounded. Wounded characters receive disadvantage on all attacks and saving throws until they heal back up to 1 hit point or more. This allows for a transitory stage between healthy and dying, without having to mess around with impairment rules while the character still has hit points left.
Incapacitated Characters begin dying when they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution score. At which point, they must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw on each of their following turns (the disadvantage from being wounded does not apply for these saving throws).
If successful, the character remains dying, but their condition does not worsen.
If the saving throw fails, another DC 10 Constitution saving throw must be made. If that one fails, the character succumbs to their wounds and dies. If successful, the character stabilizes and is no longer dying.
Finally, if a dying character receives first aid or healing at any point, they immediately stabilize.
Dead Characters will die if they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution, plus their current level. Thus, if an 8th level character with a Constitution score of 12 is down to 4 hit points then takes 24 points of damage (reducing their hit points to -20) the attack kills them outright.
The Gnoll leader in the beastiary has something that makes me think Warlord. The Incite Blood Frenzy - "The gnoll grants a +4 to damage rolls to creatures of its choice that have the Blood Frenzy ability within 30 feet of it, not counting itself or any creature already gaining this bonus." Or the Hobgoblin Leader Commander +2 ability - "Friendly creatures with the disciplined trait that can see of hear the hobgoblin and are within 30 feet of it gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. If multiple creatures have the commander trait, only the highest bonus applies." I would say that a Warlord class needs features that incorporate similar mechanics.
So now that it's nearly universally decided that there's room for the warlord in the game.
And what "universe" would that be? Sure not mine.
Except there's no other way to get the Warlord into the game.
It has way too much stuff to be put into a Specialty(and if it was, it'd have so much stuff as a Specialty, it'd already be a complete class of it's own, head and shoulders above any other Specialty)
The problem with eating the ally's reaction has been covered adequately already. If anything I'd make it just take the Warlord's action, and have the Warlord apply a scaling bonus to damage to the ally's attack.
Other consideration: Warlord interraction with casters. Do you want the Warlord to let the caster blow an extra spell, or at least a minor spell? If so, with bonuses? What about ranged non-magical attacks? Can a Warlord have the Archer shoot an extra arrow, or can he only direct melee?
On mobility, I'd like to see increased movement speeds, granting extra move actions, having allies swap places (or swapping places with an ally), negating enemy AoOs against allies as a reaction.
I'd also like to see an initiative booster worked in there. And on the Charisma side, as well as being better at healing, being better at providing allies bonuses for actions on their turns.
The Gnoll leader in the beastiary has something that makes me think Warlord. The Incite Blood Frenzy - "The gnoll grants a +4 to damage rolls to creatures of its choice that have the Blood Frenzy ability within 30 feet of it, not counting itself or any creature already gaining this bonus." Or the Hobgoblin Leader Commander +2 ability - "Friendly creatures with the disciplined trait that can see of hear the hobgoblin and are within 30 feet of it gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. If multiple creatures have the commander trait, only the highest bonus applies." I would say that a Warlord class needs features that incorporate similar mechanics.
The concept of warlord is simple, it's the guys like Sokka, or Charles Xaviar that while certainly head and shoulders above the general run of average people are more focused on improving their team than advancing their own powers. They are the Lui Beis, the Captain Americas, and even Hiccup from the dreamworks franchise (not so familiar with the books so I have no idea whether book Hiccup counts).
I don't really understand why this is so hard for some people to grasp.
Anyway yes that's one of the things I think the painting would be good for, for spell casters I imagine a painted target would take a penalty to saves or something. Yes the Warlord should be able to work with ranged attackers, there should not be a class that the warlord cannot boost with the possible exception of lazy lords, and similar builds, even then I think there might be some tricks that a warlord and a pacifist cleric could pull off.
