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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 8:43AM
#51
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I don't know (or care) the official definition of the term "gotcha DMing", but I do think that the DM's intent is an important factor.
If the DM sets up a situation with the goal of catching the PCs out, surprising them in an unpleasant way, putting them in their place, showing them who's boss, etc. -- that is "gotcha DMing" (or maybe just "bad DMing" depending upon group preference).
Some people like this adversarial approach to the game, so for them it's not "gotcha DMing". Or maybe it still is but they like it anyway.
For better or worse, 4e advocates a transparent approach to DMing (hence the Pit Fiend's aura of fire example from the 4e DMG) designed to cut down on "gotcha" moments. Personally, I enjoy the transparency. So for me anything that makes the game world more opaque verges towards "gotcha" and is something I want to avoid both as a DM and as a player.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 11:36AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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DMG page 26-27: "Gotcha" Abilities: Pay attention to monster abilities that change the basic rules and tactics of combat, and give players the cues they need to recognize them. Describe the ability as it might appear in the game world, and then describe it in game terms to make it clear.
For example, if the characters are fighting a pit fiend, whose aura of fire deals fire damage to creatures within 5 squares, you might tell the players (before their characters come in range), “The heat emanating from the devil is intense even at this distance. You know that getting within five squares of it is going to burn you.”
Well quoted. Other references if desired:
- WotC's Transparency article
- Rule of Three article: 'A “gotcha” ability is something a monster does without fair warning, especially if it punishes characters for doing something that makes sense in context. For example, an early draft of the minotaur warrior from the Monster Manual had a power that knocked people prone (still there) and a reaction that allowed it to attack anybody standing up within reach. That’s not fun; if your character gets knocked down, of course you’d try to stand up, and if you don’t have any cue or warning that you’re going to be punished for doing what your character would naturally want to do, it’s just not cricket. We want to reward players for immersing themselves in the world and thinking like their characters would think, but “gotcha” abilities tend to punish good play—or at the very least, fail to reward it.'
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 11:49AM
#53
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I have to say, a big result of this article has been the opening of my eyes to is definitely a major issue: definitions.
I'm going to be putting up a metagame thread soon.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 12:15PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2006
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Gotcha DMing - The regular or constant use events, that result in significant or improportionate consequences, which are specifically engineered to allow players effectively little, or more usually, no ability to avoid, mitigate, prevent or otherwise have a choice in the matter at all. Often the result of railroading or used to enforce it. Compare Failure Is The Only Option, Stupidity Is The Only Option, and Morton's Fork. Often invoked by But Thou Must. When Gotcha DMing takes the form of a puzzle, it often requires moon logic to solve.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 1:52PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
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Gotcha DMing - The regular or constant use events that result in significant or improportionate consequences which are specifically engineered to allow the players effectively little, more usually, no ability to avoid, mitigate, prevent or otherwise have a choice in the matter at all. Often the result of railroading or used to enforce it. Compare Failure Is The Only Option, Stupidity Is The Only Option, and Morton's Fork. Often invoke by But Thou Must. When Gotcha DMing takes the form of a puzzle, it often requires moon logic to solve.
Excellent post Fireclave !
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 2:01PM
#56
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Fireclave routinely shows little to no respect for one's workday. *lost in TVtropes*
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 3:34PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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I do not necessarily see a need to describe it in game terms...in fact, I try to avoid that if I can.
Right. That's more immersive, and most players do not need (or want) game stats. They just don't want misunderstandings, or to be gotcha'd. I give them the basics in generic, easily understood terms. They can always ask for more (or I can elaborate if it seems they didn't understand), but that's usually enough.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 7:46PM
#58
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I do not necessarily see a need to describe it in game terms...in fact, I try to avoid that if I can.
Right. That's more immersive, and most players do not need (or want) game stats. They just don't want misunderstandings, or to be gotcha'd. I give them the basics in generic, easily understood terms. They can always ask for more (or I can elaborate if it seems they didn't understand), but that's usually enough.
That is fairly identical to what I do. When playing I try to avoid using game terms or concepts to define or describe things.
I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.
If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged. If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo
My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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8 months ago ::
Oct 09, 2012 - 8:25PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2006
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Excellent post Fireclave !
Fireclave routinely shows little to no respect for one's workday. *lost in TVtropes*
And thus, cosmic balance is perserved! Fireclave Awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay......
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