It kind of feels like a 1 level dip. You get something awesome at level 1, and then nothing cool until level 4, and even that is just a feat. Level 5 is also cool, but you are asking people to sit through 3 levels of "nothing cool". I can see a lot of people just taking the first level and then moving on to something else.
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It kind of feels like a 1 level dip. You get something awesome at level 1, and then nothing cool until level 4, and even that is just a feat. Level 5 is also cool, but you are asking people to sit through 3 levels of "nothing cool". I can see a lot of people just taking the first level and then moving on to something else.
As mentioned a one level dip into the class costs almost nothing yet gives you much earlier access to a number of spells. Even taking four levels in the class to pick up an bonus feats doesn't "cost" anything. Mentioning that "some DMs may want to limit this class to four levels" also how strong this class would be even if not taken to completion.
I'm sorry but I strongly believe this class needs to "suck" at first level (no spellcasting advancement would be ideal) given some of the classes other benefits especially lowering the spell level requirements for a number of spells.
Okay, I think I have something of a handle on this now...it looks like the Timebender feature (with its access to the Chronomancy Spell List) is the main/major benefit being offered, and it's being given too soon. I think I was too eager to incorporate that spell list, for the simple fact that it's immediately available to 2E Chronomancers. Upon reflection (and thanks to your feedback), I think it would actually make better sense to switch it with the Metamagic Distortion feature. In terms of character progression, this is how the prestige class would unfold:
The character, having demonstrated an interest in the structure of history as a series of choices and events (indicated by the non-chaotic alignment and Knowledge-History skill), specialized in understanding how magic can shape reality (indicated by the Spell Focus feats), and learned a significant amount about what magic is capable of and the principles of wielding magic (the Knowledge-Arcana and Spellcraft skills), comes to the realization that there must be a way of influencing time itself via magical means. His inital venture down the road of discovering the implications of this promptly yields results that affects how time relates to the wielding of his magic (Metamagic Distortion). Though not exactly a revolutionary discovery, he's encouraged by this new perspective and continues to devote effort (research, study, philosophical musings, etc) to these new concepts, until he develops the beginnings of the notion of a more fundamental level of reality (Temporal Prime), and that all creatures with a linear existence must have some presence there (lifelines). This ultimately leads to a technique that allows him to perceive that aspect of a creature (Lifeline Sounding). With confirmation that he's correctly determined this more fundamental dimension of existence, he then has the freedom to develop more sophisticated means of wielding temporal forces, leading to a new category of magical abilities (Timebender). The rest of the progression--to Time Traveler and beyond--would then continue to show the character's progression as he becomes ever-more advanced in his understanding and abilities. This now makes a little more sense to me in terms of character development; the advanced/powerful options of the Chronomancy Spell List are still available, but only after the character has reached an advanced understanding of the concepts of Temporal Prime. Mechanically speaking (and tweaking a couple other things), here's what I think:
Class Skills: Concentration, Knowledge (any), Speak Language, Spellcraft, Craft, Profession Skill Points at each level: 2+INT modifier Proficiencies: No additional weapon/armor proficiencies
Class Features-- Lvl BAB Fort Refl Will Spells/day Special 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 +1 lvl spellcasting class Metamagic Distortion 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 lvl spellcasting class 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Lifeline Sounding 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 lvl spellcasting class Timebender 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Time Traveler 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 lvl spellcasting class Transcendent Culturist 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 lvl spellcasting class Temporal Mastery 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Vortex Vigilance 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 +1 lvl spellcasting class 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Time Lord
Spells Per Day: Except at levels 3, 5, 8, and 10, when a new Chronomancer level is gained, he gets new spells per day as if he had gained a level in his pre-existing spellcasting class.
Metamagic Distortion: The Chronomancer gains either the Extend Spell feat or the Quicken Spell feat.
Lifeline Sounding: The Chronomancer, with a successful touch, can connect with a creature's lifeline and roughly determine its length forward and backward from that moment in time. Usable 3/month.
Timebender: The Chronomancer's studies have produced knowledge of the magics that will allow him to wield the forces of Temporal Prime. The Chronomancy spell list is added to the list of spells the character can learn, and his mind is unaltered by changes in the timestream.
Time Traveler: The Chronomancer gains the ability to thin the barrier between reality and Temporal Prime and slip between the two, along with an additional mass (up to 25lbs per Chronomancer level) and/or other people (1 additional person per two Chronomancer levels). The Chronomancer must focus on one of the lifelines within the network on Temporal Prime to effect the transfer back to reality, arriving within 1d10 miles of the creature associated with that lifeline. Usable 1/day. Note: Traveling through time via Temporal Prime introduces an entirely new level of adventuring to a campaign, so DMs may choose to halt Chronomancer progress at level 4.
Transcendent Culturist: The Chronomancer, having experienced different eras, can now apply his Speak Language skill to speak past & future dialects of any language he knows, and his Knowledge (History) skill can be applied to past & future events. Note that extensive experience in a particular era--or alterations to the timestream--by this or other Chronomancers can alter the DC of the Knowledge check.
Temporal Mastery: The Chronomancer gains either the Quicken Spell feat or the Spell Mastery feat (as a Wizard), but the spells chosen must come from the Chronomancy spell list.
Vortex Vigilance: The Chronomancer can attempt to detect or detach the presence of a vortex (a type of temporal anomaly, usually the result of a disturbance in the timestream) on Temporal Prime. Usable (WIS bonus)/day.
Time Lord: The Chronomancer has determined a ritual that will permanently detach himself from his own lifeline; it will be the end of his linear existence, but not the end of his life. He becomes a nonlinear entity and is henceforth considered a native of Temporal Prime. He no longer ages and cannot be affected by lifeline-related effects, and may "double" himself any number of times when visiting reality (including visiting his former, linear-existing self).
I decided that a Chronomancer is unable to devote the time/effort/attention necessary to gain a "standard" level of advancement in spellcasting when he develops the sophisticated concepts/theories/techniques necessary for the spell-like abilities in the features of Lifeline Sounding, Time Traveler, Vortex Vigilance, and Time Lord. That seems to make sense from a narrative standpoint, I hope it also holds up for game-balance too.
Overall, I think I'm liking this design even better...in my opinion, it seems to have a sensible flow from a narrative-character-development perspective, and I *think* it may address the concerns you've been voicing. Thanks again for all the help, and if you could comment on this latest design I'd really appreciate it. Hoping for a winner! :D
with the newest revision I get a feat at level 1, and then nothing particularly awesome until level 4. And I've got to eat a non-casting level to get there? I don't know how many people will invest those 4 levels, unless the game starts with them at a high enough level to just do it.
I think it needs something cool at level 2 to tide people over until 4. What about something like the ability to age/deage people with a touch? Just throwing out ideas.
Also, why can't people just use layline sounding constantly? It doesn't seem really powerful, so the 3/month seems pretty arbitrarily delayed. Also 1/week gives a similar frequency, but is a lot easier to track.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
The aging/deaging-with-a-touch ability was a class feature in my initial design, and the only reason why it was there was because I adapted it from the spell in the 2E Chronomancer book...the effect has since been restored to the current version of the Chronomancy Spell List (see the level 6 spells, Accelerate/Regress Lifeline).
As I mentioned before, I'm reluctant to make Lifeline Sounding an ability with unlimited uses, because it could quickly wear out a DM. "I do a Lifeline Sounding on each member of my party before we head out this morning...how much longer will we live?" "Hey guys, we each have 60 years left, so we're not going to have to worry about life-threatening encounters today!" "We had a rough morning of encounters, maybe our actions after hearing about our lifelines changed our behavior enough that our lifelines no longer have 60 years left...hey DM, I'm going to check us all again!" And assorted variations thereof. 3/month was just an arbitrary choice on my part; 1/week probably would be simpler, so I'd be fine changing it to that.
In between level 1 and level 3, the Chronomancer character is still working out temporal theories, and I could see him gaining some sort of ability related to being more aware of the passage and flow of time, thereby laying the groundwork for his realization that creatures have lifelines that form a network through time (and Temporal Prime). If giving the level 2 Chronomancer an ability to represent this would be an improvement, I have three possible suggestions:
A) He gains the Improved Initiative feat. This is just the simplest, most obvious choice that occurs to me, but I get the impression that handing him another feat (especially one so universally useful) would probably be too much.
B) He gets half the Improved Initiative bonus...something like "Timestream Sensitivity: The Chronomancer gets a +2 bonus to initiative." It's not as good as Improved Init, but it can be combined with that feat and still ain't too shabby on its own. However, I don't know if this would still be too potent.
C) He'd get something like "Perceptual Clock: The Chronomancer can estimate the passage of time between any two perceived events with 100% accuracy for any events he has directly experienced, and with 90% accuracy for any events that he can observe, and with 80% accuracy for events described to him by a secondary party." A simple example: the Chronomancer comes into a room with a fire on the fireplace, and just by looking at the fire he can tell how long it's been burning for--and how much longer it will continue to burn in its current state--within 10% of the actual length of time. He can reasonably estimate the biological age of others, he can tell how fresh food is, he'll know how long ink will last before it fades (with complete accuracy if he's mixed the ink himself), etc. etc. There might be some interesting applications for this ability, though I can't think of that many offhand and virtually none of them have any real impact on the game mechanics, so overall it seems kind of weak...but I'm suggesting it in case the other two options are too good.
Add a line of text to the ability that says something about how "that length was based on you not knowing the future. Now that you know it, that may change." So it can be used to estimate stuff, but when used on a PC it doesn't tell the player anything. It can also allow wiggle room for NPCs, and explain any mistakes that happen.
I like an init bonus. Seems to fit. Improved init is cool, but something like "add half your chronomancer levels as a bonus to init" encourages people to stick with the class.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
Here's an idea: I'm going to make a couple more conditions on how to use the Sounding ability, so that some of the responsibility on when and how to use it is up to the player, so hopefully it'll restrain them from using it willy-nilly. By doing so, I'd then be okay with allowing unlimited uses of the ability. Also, I like that scaling init bonus idea, so here we go:
Class Skills: Concentration, Knowledge (any), Speak Language, Spellcraft, Craft, Profession Skill Points at each level: 2+INT modifier Proficiencies: No additional weapon/armor proficiencies
Class Features-- Lvl BAB Fort Refl Will Spells/day Special 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 +1 lvl spellcasting class Metamagic Distortion 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 lvl spellcasting class Timestream Awareness 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Lifeline Sounding 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 lvl spellcasting class Timebender 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Time Traveler 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 lvl spellcasting class Transcendent Culturist 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 lvl spellcasting class Temporal Mastery 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Vortex Vigilance 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 +1 lvl spellcasting class 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Time Lord
Spells Per Day: Except at levels 3, 5, 8, and 10, when a new Chronomancer level is gained, he gets new spells per day as if he had gained a level in his pre-existing spellcasting class.
Metamagic Distortion: The Chronomancer gains either the Extend Spell feat or the Quicken Spell feat.
Timestream Awareness: The Chronomancer's developing understanding of the nature of time gives him a heightened sensitivity to events. He gets a +1 bonus to initiative for every 2 Chronomancer levels he has.
Lifeline Sounding: The Chronomancer's has discovered a disciplined technique for sensing and measuring the linear existence of other creatures (their lifelines). After focusing on a chosen subject for a minute, the Chronomancer must make physical contact with that subject (a touch attack if it's unwilling) and succeed at a Concentration check (against DC 20, rolled by the DM) in order to connect with its lifeline. Success on both the contact and the check allows the Chronomancer to roughly determine the length of that creature's lifeline (both forward and backward) from that moment in time. Failure to make physical contact gives no result; a successful contact but failure on the Concentration check yields an incorrect guess (determined by the DM). Note: What the Chronomancer subsequently does (or doesn't do) with this information may (or may not) alter that creature's lifeline.
Timebender: The Chronomancer's studies have produced knowledge of the magics that will allow him to wield the forces of Temporal Prime. The Chronomancy spell list is added to the list of spells the character can learn, and his mind is unaltered by changes he makes in the timestream.
Time Traveler: The Chronomancer gains the ability to thin the barrier between reality and Temporal Prime and slip between the two, along with an additional mass (up to 25lbs per Chronomancer level) and/or other people (1 additional person per two Chronomancer levels). The Chronomancer must focus on one of the lifelines within the network on Temporal Prime to effect the transfer back to reality, arriving within 1d10 miles of the creature associated with that lifeline. Usable 1/day. Note: Traveling through time via Temporal Prime introduces an entirely new level of adventuring to a campaign, so DMs may choose to halt Chronomancer progress at level 4.
Transcendent Culturist: The Chronomancer, having experienced different eras, can now apply his Speak Language skill to speak past & future dialects of any language he knows, and his Knowledge (History) skill can be applied to past & future events. Note that extensive experience in a particular era--or alterations to the timestream--by this or other Chronomancers can alter the DC of the Knowledge check.
Temporal Mastery: The Chronomancer gains either the Quicken Spell feat or the Spell Mastery feat (as a Wizard), but the spells chosen must come from the Chronomancy spell list.
Vortex Vigilance: The Chronomancer can attempt to detect or detach the presence of a vortex (a type of temporal anomaly, usually the result of a disturbance in the timestream) on Temporal Prime. Usable (WIS bonus)/day.
Time Lord: The Chronomancer has determined a ritual that will permanently detach himself from his own lifeline; it will be the end of his linear existence, but not the end of his life. He becomes a nonlinear entity and is henceforth considered a native of Temporal Prime. He no longer ages and cannot be affected by lifeline-related effects, and may "double" himself any number of times when visiting reality (including visiting his former, linear-existing self).
So a Lifeline Sounding is similar to how palm readings are done (in the movies, anyway). Whether or not the result can be altered (changing destiny) or not (immutable fate) is left up to the DM, but because the result isn't automatically successful or correct, the player has to choose if he's going to go to the trouble of setting up the Sounding and trusting the result. If he decides it's worth it, then the DM will follow through; and if not, the DM is spared the effort of responding to a player's arbitrary whims. I chose DC 20 kind of randomly though (off the top of my head, really); I think it'd be fine but let me know if it seems too high or low. And of course, please let me know if the design looks good enough to play with. :D
I like it and would strongly consider playing one. 1 question though, who non-chaotic only?
I don't know much about Dr. Who, but he seems like a great example of a chaotic chronomancer. His fans also seem like your target audience for this class.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas. http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
