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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 12:54AM
#51
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />lets be honest... the best TV shows on right now are "Game of Thrones" "Boardwalk Empire" "Dexter" "Sparticus" "true blood" "strike back" "Sons of Anarchy" and all the other shows which come on after 10:00 PM, mostly on cable due to serious adult content.
I'd rather watch Adventure Time than some of those (especially True Blood. That show is a joke.), but some of them are quite good. Sherlock is easily better than any of them, though.
Either way, DnD has been, and should be, just as much Adventure Time as it is Game of Thrones, and should certainly allow for Sherlock.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 1:07AM
#52
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so Verd- so does that mean all reproduction in your game happens by asexual budding, IE if an elf and a orc accidentally bump into eachother somebody's pregnant? theres no such thing as marrage in your world or having children? is it like people are assumed to be having sex but if you have a PC that wants to marry and have kids with an NPC then you have to plug your ears, close your eyes, and start yelling "NA NA NA I'M NOT HEARING THIS IM NOT HEARING THIS!!!!"
No -moth.
It means I don't need page space wasted for rules on it.
We use D&D for, surprise surprise, Adventure games, not dating simulation.
If you really need rules for how to run a dating sim game with swords, I can link you to some good Sengoku Rance TTRPG translations.
I have an answer for you, it may even be the truth.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 1:14AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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No -moth.
It means I don't need page space wasted for rules on it.
We use D&D for, surprise surprise, Adventure games, not dating simulation.
If you really need rules for how to run a dating sim game with swords, I can link you to some good Sengoku Rance TTRPG translations.
I tend to agree. It being an rpg there is scope for a lot of pretty freaky stuff, but as much as I want a game to include as many options and encourage as many ideas as it can, I think D&D being high fantasy and relatively tame is OK. At the most, a few supplements that hook into the system is all I want to see. I should be clear: I don't want that stigma back. I don't really see what constructive purpose that could serve.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 1:25AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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@verd then dont buy the mature "supplement" and (clearly there are many who will.) but your also saying you dont want pages "wasted" on demons, demon lords, really evil and vile monsters, which have ALWAYS been part of D&D. btw what fantasy books do not contain the subject sex in some fasion? toklen had it, in conan books it was all over the place, so what are your games like; wizard of ozz? harry potter (oh yeah there was sex in that too) um... what? what books do you pattern your game on where sex is not some form of plot device?
@Doc- heh get ready for people demanding you go play F.A.T.A.L seems to be a pattern here... btw ya made me think... gender equality... there was this fantasy show I remember, it had plots and elements based on rape, homosexuality, bizzare sexual acts, seduction, orgys and group sex,... oh yeah and it was also played in a prime time time slot, on a non-cable channel, was rated as PG and was called "Zena the Warrior Princess"... I sort of remember it being slightly popular... there was also this show called buffy the vampire slayer, and another called Angel... then there was a show called "beauty and the Beast" where romance scenes came close to beastiality... come to think of it, there are a lot of fantasy shows like that...
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 2:35AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2010
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Nobody has issues with demon lords or scary monsters. A lot of that stuff has been in every edition but 2e, it just that the graphic stuff isn't explicitly stated. This is for very good reasons. It keeps the content age neutral and gives audiences who don't want to get to graphic an easy out without taking away a lot of the fun toys (demon lords, Savage monsters, ect.) without in any way hampering folks who want things more graphic.
And the reson we are bringing up F.A.T.A.L is because it is what you are asking for. Juvinile shock value graphic sex and violence to show off how "dark", "cool", "mature" and "hardcore" the game is (and by extension you the player are). That is pretty much F.A.T.A.L's MO and the game is widely ridiculed as one of the worst games every published because of it.
Mature content isn't darker or more graphic. Mature content is more complex and deep story that explores important questions and concepts in an adult manner. If you want to put that in a book go for it. Sex and gore? Not unless you want to get equated to a F.A.T.A.Lite.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 3:22AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2009
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I am not surprised that many people don't want to buy supplemental material with extra evil, dark, sexual, and violent themes. I am, however, surprised at how many would actually oppose such material from even being printed.
And the F.A.T.A.L. argument is ****ing lame (excuse my language, but sometimes cursing is called for), as that game's features are stupidity smeared in blood and semen. It actually has an item, a jar, that forces every man touching it to, unless they save, ejaculate in it with a chance of impregnating it in which case it gives birth to a boy whose lack of of penis (not testicles) makes him ever frustrated.
If any of you really think that is what Baalbamoth, or I for that matter, would want to see in dark supplemental material, you are either complete morons with no capacity for empathy or insulting beyond what I think is acceptable within this forum.
So please, voice your opposition in a way that does not insinuate that Baalbamoth is a sick, perverted, deviant, rapist, psychopath who might as well play the garbage that is F.A.T.A.L.
That said, I do see your point in preserving the image of D&D, and not being american, I probably don't see the same issues with (let's call it) "dark material".
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 5:34AM
#57
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What exactly do people want to see? Every edition has demons in it. That's not new. "Roll for getting knocked up!" is exactly the sort of silly, juvenile sort of thing that people roll their eyes at. D&D can and does have orgies, weird sex stuff, and any sort of creepy demon gore you could want, if you want it; it just doesn't have random rules for that kind of thing, because they're not important. It doesn't have orgy rules, and it also doesn't have normal fancy party rules. It doesn't have rules for getting the clap, and it doesn't have rules for congenital or foodborne illness.
I actually think that, while they'd never, ever do it, rules for sex/splattergore/spoooooky demons and stuff might actually sell fine as a supplement, because when you're fifteen a table for interspecies sexy times is edgy to tha max, and the notion that now it burns when your character pees because you bungled your sexy time check is hi-larious instead of a source of rolling-based eyeball strain, and mom would probably faint if she read about how depraved these cultists are. Yeah! Mountain Dew!
But seriously, kids like feeling like they're pushing boundaries. It's part of growing up. It just that that isn't really the sort of business I suspect WotC considers themselves to be into.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 6:43AM
#58
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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" I am, however,surprised at how many would actually oppose such material from even being printed."
For the same reason I would oppose airing an explicit sex and gore show on a child-friendly or even teen -oriented television network during primetime hours. It would mean parents, and consumers mature enough not to need that trash, could no longer trust material from that source. It would taint the whole brand.
Happily, the adults in charge of the D&D property will likely be mature enough to avoid such infantile material.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 7:37AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2007
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Either way, DnD has been, and should be, just as much Adventure Time as it is Game of Thrones, and should certainly allow for Sherlock.
I personally think that people mistake what it is about Game of Thrones that makes it so intriguing. It's not the blood or rampant sex or violence (those are significant factors, but lots of shows have all of that). What makes it so intriguing is that once you know enough about a Song of Ice and Fire, you understand that the writer truly hasn't pulled punches, and you truly can't expect traditional narrative queues to protect characters or kill them. It's so intriguing because it's a story that is brutally fair to all parties. And it would be as powerful a story even if there wasn't nearly as much sex and violence, so long as it continued to be brutally fair. Sex and violence are merely very common factors in politics of human society. Adventure Time actually has a bit of this brutal fairness too.
And as for the main topic, branding D&D as "evil" is really dumb. Kids become interested in D&D because it offers them a cooperative storytelling experience. They'll feel like they have freedom to do all kinds of stuff you either aren't supposed to do or can't do in regular life. It's a joy. Framing that as something that's popular because it's wrong is unfair to the medium, and it's unfair to the kids. We shouldn't be teaching people that spending a night imagining a shared story with your friends is inherently wrong. It's one of humanity's oldest skills.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 9:06AM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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@Caeric: not me sir. I got into D&D specifically because my mormon parents told me it was evil and my other-side-of-the-tracks buddies, who they didnt like me hanging out with, all had the red boxes.
Next thing ya know I'm playin D&D durring lunch and recess in gradeschool at age 10 and intoducing all the rich OC kids to it, and aparently causing a quite panic among the PTA (which I didnt find out about till after my teens) when most of the guys at my school asked for the demonic satanic D&D for christmas. ahh.. memories...
@ Meste- humm... so in Game of Thrones, the evil preistess seduces the would be king, so she can get pregnant, then strips and flops on the ground where in great pain she gives birth to a shadowy demonspawn, which then appears from nowhere running the the admirable hero and enemy of the preistess/would be king through with some kind of smokey shadowsword.
dark? most definately, cool? yeah I think that sorta nailed it, mature? couldent get much more, hardcore? yeah extremely... goofy rape mechanics and innane juvinile depravity, no pretty much the exact opposite of that.
would I like to see and pay for rules covering how an evil preistess could give birth to a demonspawn, the rituals and materials required, the chance of survival for both mother and child, the cost to the father (level drains maybe?) absofrigginlutely I would, and again... clearly there are a lot of other gamers who would too.
@Lokiron high five and I'm always kinda shocked when there are people who just chime in "your a pervet go play F.A.T.A.L." because they think its building their junor moral nazi credit points or something. I dont care really if people disagree with me I only wish they'd actually voice their own real well thought out and hopefully open minded opinions rather than just jumping on a band waggon.
@Lesp: Kids? I'm 42, and I think the average watcher of Thrones, Rome, Deadwood, etc. all. is probably around middle age... what do you think the average age of a gamer currently is? I'll tell ya this... I see a LOT of grognards at conventions. Just because a gaming company may want to attract a younger audience to keep the game selling far into the future does not necessarily mean that is who their core consumers are (likely 26-35 year old males, who would drop cash in a second for a book like this regardless of how much they may protest it in public or online).
@Professor then why did the adults release the 3.0 version in the first place? ya know a lot of those same guys are probably still on the payroll... and saying "it was the best suppliment WotC had released in a long time"... and likely had very high sales figures... I think your going way out of your way to convince people of a lie you really wish was true. "I think thou doest protest too much..."
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
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