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Dungeons & Dra.. Previous Editions .. Weekly Optimization Showcase: Heavy Weapons Elf
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 4:41PM #11
aelryinth
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2001
Posts: 4,226
Oi, what happened to Uberflank? Did I miss a build?

If I can't get him, I'll vote for Eat Sleep Gank. He's been waiting in the wings for a while and wants a chance to shine.

==Aelryinth  
Fighter vs Warblade analysis  http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade

The Lockdown F/20 iconic build    http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 6:11PM #12
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,786

Oct 5, 2012 -- 4:16PM, Caker wrote:

How important is eternal blade to this build? Obviously you can squeak a few more points of inspire courage out if you drop eternal blade. Going dragonborn elf will let you pick up dragonfire inspiration as well as song of the white raven. If you drop eternal blade it would allow you to drop the weapon focus in exchange for song of the white raven, and rapid shot for dragonfire inspiration. You get rapid shot back with a persisted heroics. You would end up with bard 2/warblade 18 or bard 3/warblade 17. Maneuver progression would be slightly different, but still good over all.



By all means, go ahead and whip this up!

 Eternal Blade isn't terribly important, but it's one of those too-good-to-pass-up options. You're ignoring several of its swift-action abilities and Intelligence synergy here, so we aren't getting the most bang possible out of the class, but it does provide Diamond Mind and Iron Heart (both of which we like), full base attack + IL (both of which we need, especially for the Martial Study: Raging Mongoose), and of course the distilled awesome that is Island in Time. If you think giving that up for a few points of Inspire Courage is worth it, dive in! (Note that if you can afford the proper support infrastructure - see the A-Game Paladin, including the equipment - this might not be worth it. Aluonna technically only has Inspire Courage +1, but routinely inspires for +4, and that's without Words of Creation. Best of both worlds, of course, is seeing if you can get all of that on an Eternal Blade 10.)

Oct 5, 2012 -- 4:39PM, The_Fred wrote:

RE ranged manoeuvres in general, I do want to try some kind of Shadow Garrotte/Fan the Flames/etc ranged initiator using those manoeuvres as the actual attack, but I'm not sure it would be any better than a Warlock or Dissolving Spittle Incarnate. You could take a lot of levels which grant sneak/skirmish and then dip Crusader with Martial Study, or whatever, and get a nice ranged manoeuvre without giving up many levels of the other. Swordsage 4 also offers Wis to damage (but only with one school, and Desert Wind is all fire). Just some random thoughts.



Interestingly, we have such a character on our other team, but it's not a ranged-focused build. (He's mostly a Shadow Sun Ninja, with a few interesting splashes to alter its strategy. But he DOES make frequent use of Shadow Garotte + Sudden Strike.) Since frequency-of-delivery is kind of important on these ranged builds (see the emphasis on full attacking here, or the reliability of the Chaingun Porcupine) I'm almost wondering if an Idiot Crusader approach might make that more interesting. (Primer: "Idiot Crusader" - take crusader, dip another martial adept, take a PrC, assign all the known maneuvers to the other adept class and all the readies to the crusader. If you can get as many readied maneuvers as you have known maneuvers, the crusader maneuvers refresh every round.)

Aelryinth: ...You know, I don't know where it went. If we said there'd be two builds, I'll go see about getting it up. (I don't have its writeup with me, so perhaps RT beat me to the punch there.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series: Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows:
[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 05, 2012 - 6:22PM #13
Caker
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2012
Posts: 149

Oct 5, 2012 -- 6:11PM, Tempest_Stormwind wrote:


You're welcome to whip this up if you'd like. Eternal Blade isn't terribly important, but it's one of those too-good-to-pass-up options. You're ignoring several of its swift-action abilities and Intelligence synergy here, so we aren't getting the most bang possible out of the class, but it does provide Diamond Mind and Iron Heart (both of which we like), full base attack + IL (both of which we need, especially for the Martial Study: Raging Mongoose), and of course the distilled awesome that is Island in Time. If you think giving that up for a few points of Inspire Courage is worth it, dive in! (Note that if you can afford the proper support infrastructure - see the A-Game Paladin, including the equipment - this might not be worth it. Aluonna technically only has Inspire Courage +1, but routinely inspires for +4, and that's without Words of Creation. Best of both worlds, of course, is seeing if you can get all of that on an Eternal Blade 10.)




Well if you consider that I will be playing with the character as a cohort, I would never get those capstone abilties from eternal blade anyway! Seems like all the more reason to drop it if I really wanted to get the inspire courage optimization without having to play that character myself. Unless I am really missing something, I am not really losing much of anything with bard 2/warblade 18.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 06, 2012 - 9:59AM #14
The_Fred
Date Joined: Jan 4, 2012
Posts: 3,099

Oct 5, 2012 -- 6:11PM, Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

(Primer: "Idiot Crusader" - take crusader, dip another martial adept, take a PrC, assign all the known maneuvers to the other adept class and all the readies to the crusader. If you can get as many readied maneuvers as you have known maneuvers, the crusader maneuvers refresh every round.)



I had already thought about this, actually (Crusader->JPM being a nice one), but I think extra manoeuvres readied also adds to the pool from which they're drawn, as when the Crusader goes from 2/5 to 3/6. However, once you have three or more appropriate manoeuvres, you'll always have at least one of them anyway. Using the Crusader just for the recovery method and using PrCs or Martial Study to customise the list is an idea which I've been planning on playing with, but haven't really gotten around to.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 08, 2012 - 1:16PM #15
Balthanon
Date Joined: Nov 2, 2002
Posts: 4,729

Oct 5, 2012 -- 3:58PM, Tempest_Stormwind wrote:


That's... an interesting question. It requires Bardic Music (Inspire Courage), but if you somehow get that specific ability without bard levels, you'd use your crusader and warblade levels as your bard level. Note that Bardic Music requirement - this is hard to obtain without bard. Not that bard is a bad call here, especially with the right entry levels, but the trick is to keep enough feats open for Inspire boosting as well as archery, without botching the maneuver timing too much. (You'd almost certainly have to give up Time Stands Still.)




Warrior Skald is a pretty decent replacement for bard on a Warblade/Crusader Song of the White Raven build.  I had a character built around that at one point for an epic campaign.  It wouldn't really work here since the pre-requisite feats would more or less be wasted though.

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 10, 2012 - 5:24PM #16
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 275
I would vote for a gnowhere gnome for next week also wow this build was great not what I expected at all, keep up the great work everyone
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 12, 2012 - 9:51AM #17
Omen_of_Peace
Date Joined: Feb 4, 2007
Posts: 5,857
Fairly nice build.
You guys (or is it mostly AR?) really like your Eternal Blade.

Oct 5, 2012 -- 6:11PM, Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

 Eternal Blade isn't terribly important, but it's one of those too-good-to-pass-up options. You're ignoring several of its swift-action abilities and Intelligence synergy here, so we aren't getting the most bang possible out of the class, but it does provide Diamond Mind and Iron Heart (both of which we like), full base attack + IL (both of which we need, especially for the Martial Study: Raging Mongoose), and of course the distilled awesome that is Island in Time. If you think giving that up for a few points of Inspire Courage is worth it, dive in! (Note that if you can afford the proper support infrastructure - see the A-Game Paladin, including the equipment - this might not be worth it. Aluonna technically only has Inspire Courage +1, but routinely inspires for +4, and that's without Words of Creation. Best of both worlds, of course, is seeing if you can get all of that on an Eternal Blade 10.)



I'll add a word of caution for the readers: it's very easy to find oneself starved for swift actions at high levels, even more so when you add the Eternal Blade goodies on top of the Warblade counters & boosts (and then there are the items...). That's one reason why Stance of Alacrity is one of the best stances; in that sense it's good that this build does not plan on using all the EB swift action abilities.

An immediate example of such a trade-off: do I use a save-enhancing counter now or do I save my action for Raging Mongoose next turn?

I've actually taken to listing maneuvers/spells/abilities by the action they take in some cases, because that helps me not stock up on 10 swift/immediate action abilities.

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