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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 1:25AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2012
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Hi, I live in a small town, there are about 20 RPG players total. most play 1 home game, and occasionally show at game night at the town's single gaming store commonly while inbetween campaigns or durring breaks in their regular home sessions.
Right now "Pathfinder" is really the only RPG people are playing.
When you say "I want to run a game, I've chosen to only use the core book rules, and I dont allow use of the Advanced players guide, Advanced race guide, etc. which are all considered 'optional' by their definitions..."
The players are not interested in playing, choosing instead to only play in games where the "default" of using all the books where all classes, archtypes, and official feats are allowed, even if the DM running the game may not be as tallented.
This is a worry for me and D&D 5e, the designers are stating that "we are giving you the tools to run any kind of game you and your players want"
while at the same time saying "but we will have an official default set of rules that we assume most DM's will follow"
that means if I want to run a lower magic game, or choose to use some optional rules or not use some rules I dont like... my game is not considered a "standard" or "default" game. which will make it harder for me to find players.
Instead, I think there should be no "default" D&D game, 5e should assume that every DM will choose to run their game in slightly different ways.
Further, it was mentioned in the Gen-Con pannel, that there is going to be some kind of checklist telling players exactly what rules the DM plans to use for the players to easily choose between games they want to play in, and games they dont.
that only increases the problem if you want to attempt to get players to try something something non-standard.
I remember when a player at Gen-Con mentioned that he had never tried running an encounter without minatures, but loved it once he tried it and plans to use "no minature encounters" in the game he runs...
it made me wonder... if "minatures every encounter" was the standard... would that guy have ever played in a game without them? ever learned how quick and cool it is not to use minis for every encounter?
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:04AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 20, 2011
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Well first of all... with 5e I do use minis every encounter, even none combat encounters  Second, I think the optional modules are better for the majority of people. As a DM its your job to run a game as enjoyable as possible for your players while still having fun yourself, from the sounds of it, people arent playing because you want to play your way and your way only. D&D is a baked potato, you order that fine and well and everyone knows what your getting, but the toppings are to each persons preference, try not to force your players to take beans when they want cheese! Eugh... never write posts when your hungry.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:09AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Eugh... never write read posts when your hungry.
Fixed.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:15AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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That's the crux of the biscuit, isn't it? The huge weakness to all this module stuff is there will be situations where the social norm won't mesh with the desires of everyone. It's a social problem though. My suggestion would be to present an adventure as a "just to see" kind of adventure and as they buy into it you can ease the group into the idea that actually you're having fun with some restrictions going on.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 3:45AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Eugh... never write read posts about being hungry when you're hungry.
Fixed.
Double fixed
Perhaps instead of a default, there could be various standard settings of modules and rules.
"I want to start a game. D&D Next Heroic Standard or Basic Rules."
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 4:26AM
#6
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The problem with no default is you are basically saying to every 10-12 year old kid who picks up the rules for the first time, "You must spend days, if not weeks, learing all the implications of module choices, choose what modules you will use, and only then can you begin to have fun with this game." Being that new, and especially young players are the future of this brand and hobby, it doesn't seem to make much sense to alienate them entirely in favor of established gamers. In spite of being a game for 33 years, I very much want to see a default ruleset, which it is made clear you can tinker with as much as you want, or not if that is your preference.
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire Concerning Player Rules Bias
Show
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 4:28AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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I think people (mostly) agree that you need some kind of default, I think the worry is that if you're in a place where nobody is willing to accept that as a starting point then you could be in a situation where you're stuck learning all the interactions anyway, whether you want to or not.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 4:39AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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There are always going to be special cases, but overall, even with Pathfinder, players and the DM choose what they want to play in regard to the various rulebooks, etc. The bigger problem is finding a DM to run a game, versus getting players to play it. So the emphasis should be on giving the DM the tools and options. Gaming groups are social cliques where the more dominant members are going to push their preferences, and regardless of the options you are going to get into disagreements.
I expect 5E's biggest problem will be edition wars, and that can not be avoided even with default options, because each of us holds a certain version of D&D close to our heart.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 4:39AM
#9
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Default ≠ Core
Core is the core rules that everyone uses.
The core rules can require players to choose which modules they want to use.
“Default” is what happens if they refuse to make any choices.
It is like winning a baseball game by default because the other team never showed up, so no game ever happened. It isnt supposed to be the way the game works, but it is what happens if nothing happens.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:06AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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I agree with Haldrik. I also have no problem with saying - choose a healing system that suits your groups playstyle. If you are unsure we recommend you try the first one in the book (which is perhaps middle of the road).
As for the OP, it is true that people have people problems. You are in an area where everyone is focused in on one playstyle. That is too bad but I'm not sure D&D can fix that. I mean you have that right now in Pathfinder. Pathfinder default in your area is what everyone is playing. Even if not labeled as such. I think it would behoove WOTC to avoid one single default.
Here is perhaps how I'd do it...
1. Red Box default - the beginner set chooses the simplist and easiest for beginners default.
2. Core 3 book default - maybe this is for those people a bit more advanced than red box kids on their own.
3. Campaign Setting defaults - different settings can be more or less "gritty" and have different magic systems.
Of course the default is designed to be changed in any situation for those that know how and want to make the changes.
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