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Oct 27, 2012 -- 8:20PM, GreyICE wrote:

Oct 27, 2012 -- 7:31PM, Zaramon wrote:

All right, if no one will say it and point out the giant mutant elephant in the room, I will. Clearly, New World of Darkness is in all ways objectively better than D&D. There, I said it.

Well in terms of encouraging roleplay, yeah, it is.  There's systems set up for fame, for followers/cultists, for resources (divorced from magical items, etc.), for contacts, for allies and political connections.   This allows virtually limitless customization in a lot of respects.  You can make a rock star who is actually famous and gets mechanical benefits (not by DM fiat).  This allows you to make a charismatic cult leader.  An information broker who knows everyone and trades secrets.  A rich playboy.  A street crook barely making it by.  And I haven't even gotten into supernatural options.

For rules, well, it's White Wolf.  Combat is short, dirty, and usually based on ambushes or getting the drop on people.  Certain powers are objectively ridiculous, while others are barely worthwhile.  Specialties are more broken than they used to be (somehow) and they let people get absurd dice pools that are impossible to survive.  3E was a model of long, involved combats in comparison.  Rocket tag barely begins to describe it.   The splatbooks are going to contain things that make Unearthed Arcana look like childs play if you give them long enough (hi True Brujah, I'm sure you'll be back).  

But yes, in terms of encouraging and rewarding roleplay, it's objectively better than D&D, just as 4E is objectively better than 3E.  There are other factors.

Fate vs. nWoD is actually interesting, because Fate handles on the fly a lot of things WoD predefines.  It's almost narrative vs. simulationist, at least in a form (although not in a way that any D&D player would recognize).  

I was just making a joke in hopes that people would get the ironic comment on the nature of edition warring, since there was a lot of talk of it, and some actual edition warring, occuring. But I do genuinely enjoy New World of Darkness. I would love Old World of Darkness too, but some of their mechanical systems (like how they handle their version of initiative and turn order, in fact mainly that) really put me off when I tried to play Scion. Loved the concept of Scion though. Hell I had all these awesome ideas for it and it never got off the ground because that turn order system gave me an anurism.

I especially liked thaumaturgy from Masquerade, even though once you get up higher Cruac and Theban Sorcery from Requiem are objectively more rikokulous (hi, me and my buddies have a lock of your hair so we're all gonna hit you with 10 agg each from the other side of the world) because thaumaturgy had that classic vampire warlock feel and I don't feel like Cruac or Theban sorcery provided that. I felt more like a pagan glenmoril witch with one, and more like an old testament priest/prophet with the other. I remember discovering the Tremere bloodline after pouring over rules looking for something that could fit what I wanted, and rejoiced when I found that bloodline, only to realize it was Masquerade, and the group wouldn't allow a conversion of it.

I also really enjoyed that the game encouraged a kind of literary exploration of human nature with the way their systems were set up. Sure, sometimes their extreme degree of focus might send things into the realm of bathos sometimes but most of the time it was an enjoyable experience.

As for that idea of rocket tag, I have always said that 3e's biggest problem was gib potential, and all my math nerd friends agree with me. Never heard it called rocket tag until I started posting here though.