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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 5:35PM
#1
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Instead of getting levels 1-20 (or 1-30 or even 30+) all in one book out at the same time should WotC release that content later? Much like the old Basic D&D boxed sets with bands of levels. That way they can release books with the Core levels and classes and options in 2013 while testing levels 11+ play testing them for longer.
The advantage is higher level play can be really solid. And we still get the content about the same time with playtesting. And as so many people will be starting fresh they won't need that content right away. So the Core books can have more low level content and options. Instead of 6 or 8 classes from levels 1-20 there can be 12+ classes from 1-10.
The disadvantage is not having solid rules right away, a longer play testing period. And we would have to rely on WotC to actually release that content in a year. As seen with the treatment of Epic tier in 4e, they're not great on their followthrough.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 5:46PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2006
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No. I don't want my game unfinished at release. I also don't want to have to buy several books to get the full game.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 5:50PM
#3
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No.
République du Plateau, Montréal, Québec
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 5:51PM
#4
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Are you familiar with the 3rd edition epic level handbook?
Putting off high levels until after the game is published doesn't make anything better.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:13PM
#5
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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Personal opinion...
Do the tiers need to be associated with levels?
Perhaps each tier is simply a module that dials the overall power level up and down. Consider...
Gritty - Roll 3d6 for ability scores, roll starting hit points, magic is limited, etc.
Heroic - Roll 4d6 drop the lowest or 28 point buy, hit points = Con score at level 1, magic is scarce in the world but not limited for PCs.
Paragon - 32 point buy for ability scores, hit points = Con score plus some number, magic is well known.
Epic - 40 point by for ability scores, hit points = 2x Con score plus some number, magic is commonplace.
The numbers are just examples, the point is, each tier of play is, perhaps, more about play style than character level. You could play an Epic tier campaign from level 1 while another table plays a Gritty tier campaign from level 1.
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:22PM
#6
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Personal opinion...
Do the tiers need to be associated with levels?
Perhaps each tier is simply a module that dials the overall power level up and down. Consider...
Gritty - Roll 3d6 for ability scores, roll starting hit points, magic is limited, etc.
Heroic - Roll 4d6 drop the lowest or 28 point buy, hit points = Con score at level 1, magic is scarce in the world but not limited for PCs.
Paragon - 32 point buy for ability scores, hit points = Con score plus some number, magic is well known.
Epic - 40 point by for ability scores, hit points = 2x Con score plus some number, magic is commonplace.
The numbers are just examples, the point is, each tier of play is, perhaps, more about play style than character level. You could play an Epic tier campaign from level 1 while another table plays a Gritty tier campaign from level 1.
If levels don't represent character power, what is the point of having levels?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:35PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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He's not asking about level's he's asking about teirs, specifically about separating tier from level to mean something else, so instead of paragon teir meaning a level 11-20 character it instead means 32 point buy and solid HP.
BAsically the game-world becomes paragon or epic rather than the characters.
I'm kinda mixed on the higher level stuff, on the one hand they are promising a fairly massive amount of content in the form of 15+ classes. It might be a good idea to keep the book at a manageable size if they focus on low-level play, on the other hand the epic rules in 3e were iffy precisely because they were tacked on instead of flowing naturally.
I like the idea of different rules for play styles like gritty or dramatic, but i don't think teir is the right word, flavor? tone?
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:45PM
#8
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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Personal opinion...
Rampant is correct, my idea is that tier (perhaps "campaign module"?) is a play style consideration, not a character level consideration.
An Epic Campaign Module would still have character levels 1-10 or 1-20 or what have you, but the type of story and play style is quite different across all levels from the Gritty Campaign Module.
Just a few thoughts on the subject of levels and play styles.
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:46PM
#9
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He's not asking about level's he's asking about teirs, specifically about separating tier from level to mean something else, so instead of paragon teir meaning a level 11-20 character it instead means 32 point buy and solid HP.
BAsically the game-world becomes paragon or epic rather than the characters.
I'm kinda mixed on the higher level stuff, on the one hand they are promising a fairly massive amount of content in the form of 15+ classes. It might be a good idea to keep the book at a manageable size if they focus on low-level play, on the other hand the epic rules in 3e were iffy precisely because they were tacked on instead of flowing naturally.
I like the idea of different rules for play styles like gritty or dramatic, but i don't think teir is the right word, flavor? tone?
My problem is with the idea of a level 1 "epic" character, or a level 20 "gritty" character. I don't mind the idea of modules for "Use this if you want a lower powered campaign" or "Use this if you want a more cinematic experience", but that is not the same thing as character tiers, which is what is explicitly being discussed in this topic.
My point is that as you level your character gains power and progresses through the tiers. This has been true in D&D even in games where tiers weren't officially defined. To me, that progression is one of the defining things of D&D, where you start out killing orcs and end killing Demon Kings, Dragons, and Gods. I've played games where you don't get that kind of progression, and game power level is set from character generation. While some of those games can be cool, it is most definitely not D&D.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:51PM
#10
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Are you familiar with the 3rd edition epic level handbook?
Putting off high levels until after the game is published doesn't make anything better.
It wasn't publically playtested for an additional year and was a 3.0 product.
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?Spoiler:
Show
My Webcomic
Updated Tuesday and Thursday
Read my blog on the WotC Community Site (updated irregularly to avoid spamming the "Featured Blogger" list).
You can follow me on Twitter: "@DnDJester"
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