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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 6:38AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2011
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Alright, so I'm playing in a eleventh (possible twelfth) level campaign and the threat of dying is becoming more threatening with each battle. So I thought it was high time to make a back up character just in case the worst was to happen.
We are allowed to use any of the 3.5 books with a 36 point buy system, and the backup character must be one level lower than the original character. I get all the starting gold from being a Ninth level character as well. My plan is to stay away from races that give any level adjustment or start with monstorous levels/hit die. Also, I really want to do multi-classing out since it adds versatility as well as be some sort of caster/melee character. I usually only play melee combatants and casters have always intrigued me. On the contrary, I don't want to run into battle and die in two hits from the monsters we'll be facing.
This is the only thing I've come up with so far.
Cleric - 5 / Wizard - 4 or Cleric - 3 / Wizard - 3 / Geomancer - 3
Feats - Practiced Spellcaster, and the rest are yet to be determined
Abilities - 16, 16, 14, 12, 12, 10 is the best combo I've found so far. Not assigned in any order yet though.
As far as our current party goes we have the following
8th level Wu Jen Pixie - ECL of 11
3rd level Rogue Doppleganger - ECL of 11 (4 monstorous hit die factored in)
6th level Dragon Shaman / 1st level Rogue Half-Dragon Halfing - ECL of 10 (The Half-Dragon template was acquired in the campaign as well as the dragon shaman class due to certain events.)
The Wu Jen does a lot of spell abilites and significant damage. But most of the time is worried about hititng other party members and can't fill as a sufficient buffing character since they are focused more on damage. The doppleganger, literally, dies almost every encounter and is a relitively new player and can't really take advantage of the Doppleganger's natural abilities. And with my Dragon Shaman I'm not allowed to use weapons and with my small size my natural attacks don't do much. We rely heavily off of the output of damage from Cone of Fire (Half-dragon ability, not coming from the Dragon Shaman) and the Pixie's burst. But once she has expanded all of her spells our damage basically drops to next to nothing. That and we have only the Dragon Shaman's touch of vitality once a day for healing.
So, ideas and builds you've come up with in the past would be helpful. Or if you just want to comment or have questions about the campaign that is fine as well. Also, if you need aditional information just let me know and I'll fill you in as needed. Hopefully I've got it all, though, it is early morning after our late night session and I have yet to sleep.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 7:40AM
#2
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There is a lot of somewhat conflicting information here. You mention a 10th-level party yet have 11th-level (that's what ECL means) characters. Some may disagree with this but with PB 36 you're effectively getting another +1 LA worth of stat adjustments. Maybe your character's aren't even effective much less optimized but with what I see you are playing at a high level.
As for your proposed multiclass combos there is no easy way to say this but they suck. A generally noted rule about multiclassing spellcasters is "thou shall not give up casting levels" and with you're build you are doing that in spades as you're giving up four or five casting levels with those builds. It may not be very tough but a Cleric3/Wiz3/Mystic Theruge3 is only giving up 3 casting levels on each side.
If you're looking for a fighting spellcaster you could go with a cleric or druid build which can be pretty basic. On the arcane side you'd need to be looking at one of the various "gish" builds that combine magic with martial abilities. There are many such builds so which one is right for you will depend on what you want to emphasize. Perhaps the most basic 9th-level "gish" would be a BattleSorcerer7/AbjurantChampion2 which has a +7 BAB and casts as a 9th-level BattleSorcerer (UA/SRD) but there are many other builds to consider including warrior2/arcanist4/Spellsword1/AbC2 which should have 7th-level casting and a +2 BAB but a whole lot more other abilities when compared to the basic BS build.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 7:56AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2011
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Ah, yeah that is my mistake it is an eleventh level campaign. We ran two different groups in the same campaign setting. Which ended up meeting up and due to luck ended up kind of wanting to accomplish the same thing. So instead of us playing two characters a piece we just chose which of the two we wanted to play. I'll correct that. And you could be right about the +1 LA from the 36 point buy I think our DM just chose to forego that bit, but I'm not sure.
And please, be as blunt as you need to be. Like I said I'm not too skilled in creating spellcasters. So, really, I could use any help or info I could get. Also, if there is anything that needs to be explained just let me know.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 9:00AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
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There is one theurge class that's worth it: the Arcane Heirophant (Races of the Wild). Not only does it advance spellcasting for both arcane and druid casting, but it advances class features, too. Specifically, wild shape and your "familiar companion". I don't know of any early entry tricks for the class, but here's how I would do it if you can't find one:
Race: Human
Abilities: 10/14/14/16/16/10 (+1 Wis at levels 4, 8, 12; +1 Int at 16 & 20)
Level 1: Druid 1 (Spell Focus (Conjuration), Able Learner*)
Level 2: Druid 2
Level 3: Druid 3 (Augment Summoning)
Level 4: Druid 4
Level 5: Druid 5
Level 6: Wizard 1 (Natural Spell, Scribe Scroll*)
Level 7: Wizard 2
Level 8: Wizard 3
Level 9-18: Arcane Heirophant 1-10 (By the end of the class, you'll have the casting, wild shape, & animal companion of a 15th-level druid and the casting & familiar of a 13th-level wizard)
Feats after level 6 don't really matter much. You could rock Toughness for 9-18 and not really care.
Level 19 & 20: Druid 6 & 7
I'm sure somebody will come along and improve on my ability score suggestions, but that's what I've got.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon
Buttler of the House of Trolls
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 9:36AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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Alright, so I'm playing in a eleventh (possible twelfth) level campaign and the threat of dying is becoming more threatening with each battle. So I thought it was high time to make a back up character just in case the worst was to happen.
We are allowed to use any of the 3.5 books with a 36 point buy system, and the backup character must be one level lower than the original character. I get all the starting gold from being a Ninth level character as well. My plan is to stay away from races that give any level adjustment or start with monstorous levels/hit die. Also, I really want to do multi-classing out since it adds versatility as well as be some sort of caster/melee character. I usually only play melee combatants and casters have always intrigued me. On the contrary, I don't want to run into battle and die in two hits from the monsters we'll be facing.
This is the only thing I've come up with so far.
Cleric - 5 / Wizard - 4 or Cleric - 3 / Wizard - 3 / Geomancer - 3
Feats - Practiced Spellcaster, and the rest are yet to be determined
Abilities - 16, 16, 14, 12, 12, 10 is the best combo I've found so far. Not assigned in any order yet though.
As far as our current party goes we have the following
8th level Wu Jen Pixie - ECL of 11
3rd level Rogue Doppleganger - ECL of 11 (4 monstorous hit die factored in)
6th level Dragon Shaman / 1st level Rogue Half-Dragon Halfing - ECL of 10 (The Half-Dragon template was acquired in the campaign as well as the dragon shaman class due to certain events.)
The Wu Jen does a lot of spell abilites and significant damage. But most of the time is worried about hititng other party members and can't fill as a sufficient buffing character since they are focused more on damage. The doppleganger, literally, dies almost every encounter and is a relitively new player and can't really take advantage of the Doppleganger's natural abilities. And with my Dragon Shaman I'm not allowed to use weapons and with my small size my natural attacks don't do much. We rely heavily off of the output of damage from Cone of Fire (Half-dragon ability, not coming from the Dragon Shaman) and the Pixie's burst. But once she has expanded all of her spells our damage basically drops to next to nothing. That and we have only the Dragon Shaman's touch of vitality once a day for healing.
So, ideas and builds you've come up with in the past would be helpful. Or if you just want to comment or have questions about the campaign that is fine as well. Also, if you need aditional information just let me know and I'll fill you in as needed. Hopefully I've got it all, though, it is early morning after our late night session and I have yet to sleep.
why you dont start with the duskblade is a sorserer/fighter combination in a basic class in the player handbook 2 and is ideal if you are starting with magic things.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 10:30AM
#6
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There is one theurge class that's worth it: the Arcane Heirophant (Races of the Wild). ...
It depends on what you consider "worth it" because I believe there are a couple more that can get you enough to make up for losing some casting levels. They're both in the Complete Mage. I think Ultimate Magus can definitely combine prepared (Wizard) and spontaneous (Sorcerer, Beguiler, and others) arcane spellcasting effectively although you probably want to use the Practiced Spellcaster "trick" to enable a 18/9 or 17/10 casting split at 20th level. I also like the Cleric/Warlock PrC which may only advance not advance one class all ten levels but which can work pretty well; the downside to it is that many people consider the Warlock to be a horrible class especially after the early levels.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 10:36AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2005
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There is one theurge class that's worth it: the Arcane Heirophant (Races of the Wild). ...
It depends on what you consider "worth it" because I believe there are a couple more that can get you enough to make up for losing some casting levels. They're both in the Complete Mage. I think Ultimate Magus can definitely combine prepared (Wizard) and spontaneous (Sorcerer, Beguiler, and others) arcane spellcasting effectively although you probably want to use the Practiced Spellcaster "trick" to enable a 18/9 or 17/10 casting split at 20th level. I also like the Cleric/Warlock PrC which may only advance not advance one class all ten levels but which can work pretty well; the downside to it is that many people consider the Warlock to be a horrible class especially after the early levels.
Ultimate Magus is good, but I figured he wanted two different kinds of casting. And I'm not familiar enough with Warlocks to have included them. 
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice
"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan
This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon
Buttler of the House of Trolls
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 11:40AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2008
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3.5
StevenO beat me to the punch with Battle Sorcerer. I've used that as the "core" class for 3 of my bbeg's so far (the group prefers PC's to be pure core). But yeah, using the Battle Sorcerer, I've made a BS/Arcane Archer, a BS/Eldritch Knight, and currently a BS/Dragon Disciple, each of which has torn the party to shreds (along with appropriate minions/adventures, of course) time and time again, and gotten away to fight another day multiple times, so that when the party finally does slay the bbeg, they REALLY feel like they won a MAJOR triumph.
Neue
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 12:11PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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3.5
StevenO beat me to the punch with Battle Sorcerer. I've used that as the "core" class for 3 of my bbeg's so far (the group prefers PC's to be pure core). But yeah, using the Battle Sorcerer, I've made a BS/Arcane Archer, a BS/Eldritch Knight, and currently a BS/Dragon Disciple, each of which has torn the party to shreds (along with appropriate minions/adventures, of course) time and time again, and gotten away to fight another day multiple times, so that when the party finally does slay the bbeg, they REALLY feel like they won a MAJOR triumph.
Neue
if you going to multiclass into a magic/battle character use the BS not is the best option because her Spell Know have one less than normal, you can cast lv 2 spells for yourself until lv 5, is better use a basic spell casting class then multiclass in a battle class and at lv 6 or 7 take a prestige class like the eldritsh knight or the Abjurant champion (lv 10) or maybe the disciple of the green star.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 03, 2012 - 1:40PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2005
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You mention that your group's only caster doesn't do much buffing. One option would be to make a caster focused on buffing. The war weaver prestige class (Heroes of Battle) would get four buffs onto your party members as a move action at the start of battle. It also lets you use single-target buffs on multiple allies and increases touch-range buffs to close range.
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