|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 12:26PM
#1
|
|
|
Lot's of people seem to confuse "chaotic" with "desctuctive", but it never has been described that way. It was always supposed to be "not bound by rules". Seems to me there would be a better, less overloaded word to describe it.  Anyone have any suggestions? Lawful<->Freedom perhaps? What about the other axis? Replace good<->evil with self centered<->selfless? Or is it too entrenched to change?
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 12:29PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
|
Anarchic?
The metagame is not the game.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 12:33PM
#3
|
|
|
Anarchic?
That tends to have the same "destructive" connation.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 12:33PM
#4
|
|
|
Throw alignment in the fireplace, followed by a gallon of gasoline?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 12:44PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2009
|
"Random"
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:03PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2012
|
Lot's of people seem to confuse "chaotic" with "desctuctive", but it never has been described that way. It was always supposed to be "not bound by rules". Seems to me there would be a better, less overloaded word to describe it.
Anyone have any suggestions? Lawful<->Freedom perhaps?
What about the other axis? Replace good<->evil with self centered<->selfless?
Changing the names would be a very chaotic decision. 
Sorry, couldn't resist. Here's my two cents....
In all honesty, the law-chaos and good-evil spectrum is a staple of D&D. I don't think changing the names really does any good, since it will make it feel less like D&D and do about the same amount of pidgeon-holing as the normal system. I do agree with you in that I wish less people automatically thought chaotic meant destructive, but I guess when using these terms they can be interpreted in a variety of ways. It would be good to clearly state freedom as an important aspect of chaos though; this has been done in previous editions in varying degrees, but clearly it has fallen somewhat short of success.
For whatever reason, some people see the chaotic alignment as needing to be impulsive, reckless, destructive, rude, etc. When in fact those are just possible traits that go along with that alignment better, but are not exclusive to it. A lawful person could just as easily be those things, he might just have somewhat different motivation for his actions. It's even possible for chaotic beings to have honor, it's just different than how a lawful character might look at it.
A buddy of mine is playing a chaotic evil character, and he is the first one in a decade to decide to play one without being a **** about it. Instead of being crazy, loud, and destructive, he is playing the character is quiet, brooding, and calculating. His internal motives are chaotic and (very) evil, but he is very in control of his mind and actions (unlike previous chaotic evil attempts some of my friends have made...).
I strongly prefer the pre-4E alignment system, but I do recognize it can cause some people to feel they need to act in a certain manner. For some reason (probably just because it didn't feel like D&D to me) I didn't like the option of being unaligned... If the writers of the PHB and/or DMG can bother to put more than just a single paragraph behind each alignment, and dedicated the time/space to explain the alignments as a compilation of general attitudes and likely personalities (etc.), they could instead inspire us to expand our characters instead of prohibit them. Alignment should been seen as a starting point instead of some kind of personality speed-limit.
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:09PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2012
|
"Chaotic" already has too much history. It will never be dropped.
By the way, it is actually not that bad of a word to describe what a Chaotic character is, but "Rebelous" might work.
Law vs Rebelion
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:23PM
#8
|
|
|
Well, the obvious positive term would be "freedom" or "liberty" or something along those lines. But I agree with androkguz: there's no way it's changing from "chaos".
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:24PM
#9
|
|
|
Anarchic?
That tends to have the same "destructive" connation.
Also, it's just Greek for "not-law".
|
|
|
|
9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:26PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2006
|
I tend to like to keep Chaotic as it is. It doesn't really suit things (and nor does alignment) but they're staples of the game just like dungeons and dragons. The original game was modeled on some old books where the forces of evil were known as Chaos and those of good were known as Law. Essentially, I agree that Chaotic is pretty loaded, but it has history. Also, alignment in general is a little crazy to work with, but I think it serves a purpose. Eliminating alignment completely is a fine idea, but I figure you might as well include it and if no one likes it they don't have to use alignments. I remember when I started out a favorite tactic was asking everyone met "Are you good or bad?" This worked fine until one group of evil warriors said "we're good" and then proceeded to take the party totally unawares.  Love the picture, by the way.
David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG (free)
|
|
|
