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9 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 9:46PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2011
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Well, so we're playing a version of 4E you might be surprised about... We combined the SMT: Persona games with 4e rules and blended them with Heroclix rules. They have classes, but they can summon spirits that ALSO grant them additional abbilities, usually an at-will or a feat. They work as familiars, in pasive mode they only gain a little stat boost such as +1 to movement or +1 to a stat or skill, but when in Active, they gain the whole benefits, such as s hovering move type, ignoring some hazardous terrain and even gaining some at-wills from other classes or elemental at wills invented by me. If the familiar is killed, they lose all the benefits. The game is workng so far and I've received some nice feedback from my players because they love the system blend... However there's something that bothers them: Why can't they make aditional attacks with two weapons unless they're rangers OR use a summon spirit that grants them a dual strike ability or power?
This started with my Warden with the Elemental Initiate theme. He weilds dual Dragon Claws and wants to play like a Kung Fu Fighter. I granted him with a summon spirit that gives him said power (the ranger's Twin Fangs at-will), but still thinks that it's easy to lose it as he has to activate his familiar, plus, he thinks 6 seconds are enough to attack with two weapons, and how ridiculous is to have an Axe in a hand and a sword in the other, knowing that the axe will allways outdamage the sword.
I've been thinking about branching damage types and giving enemies resistance to said attacks. Example: Pierce, Blunt and Slash weapons. An enemy with a hard shell would be very resistant to slash and pierce damage, but Blunt Weapons would do the job smashing him to pieces. That way the idea of using more than a kind of weapon would be attractive.
Another solution would be an old-school way. We all know 4e is very "video gamey" (and that's why we love it, we make long campaigns filled with Solo Monsters, random encounters and large exploration areas with secrets); but even RPG videogames let some caracters such as bare-hnd attackers do a dual strike, and older pen and paper RPGs let the players use their weapons with some kind of penalty. I let my players too do some things not specified on their powers, such as my Swordmage player using his Lightning Lure to smash an enemy against a nearby rock, or my brawler build fighter grabbing an enemy and throwing them at an incoming group, both using damage as an improvised weapon. What do you think?
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9 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 10:04PM
#2
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It sounds to me like you've got such a mishmash of rules that no one on this forum will be able to really help you because we aren't familiar with your complicated mixture of three different game systems.
In 4e, the long story short is, if you want to dual-wield and multi-attack, play a class that supports dual-wielding and multi-attacking. Ranger, Fighter, Barbarian and Scout immediately come to mind.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 11:11PM
#3
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To answer the thread's title. It has to do with balance. If everyone could dual-wield and attack with both weapons in one action it would be too strong. It would make rise to the issue of why use one sword, when two swords are better? Meaning strikers that attack using weapons would be hard-pressed to dual wield to maximize thier dmg.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 11:18PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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The game rules do not and are not intended to accurately model every action taken in combat with a die roll. Characters are almost certainly taking more than one or even two offensive actions in a 6 second round. Sometimes this is represented as a bonus attack from some source, or as a minor action, opportunity attack, interrupt or action point, but most of the time, it's not represented in game. For fairness and ease of play, characters are generally represented as having only one good chance of affecting their opponent in a way reflected by the rules (since any of the non-represented attacks could also be causing pain or stress to the target as well). So, in general, you get one attack per turn.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:56PM
#5
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We have a dual-wielding Human Tempest Fighter in the party. Only a few of his attacks actually involve both weapons, but both his attack and defense bonuses go up if he has the two weapons. We all like the image of him standing with these blades whipping around him as he blocks foes from advancing on his companions. One nice aspect is he doesn't need to switch out weapons when he attacks with a single weapon ability, he can simply choose to use his off-hand weapon if it has an additional effect or aspect he wants.
He is by far not an ideal build, but everyone loves the character, so that's not an issue.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 3:50PM
#6
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The game rules do not and are not intended to accurately model every action taken in combat with a die roll. Characters are almost certainly taking more than one or even two offensive actions in a 6 second round. Sometimes this is represented as a bonus attack from some source, or as a minor action, opportunity attack, interrupt or action point, but most of the time, it's not represented in game. For fairness and ease of play, characters are generally represented as having only one good chance of affecting their opponent in a way reflected by the rules (since any of the non-represented attacks could also be causing pain or stress to the target as well). So, in general, you get one attack per turn.
Not to mention that your six second turn is going on at the same time as team monster's, so you're generally trying to fend off attacks from monsters as well.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 4:45PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2009
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The point of dual wielding weapons is so you can decapitate two enemies at once or bash two brains in at once, etc. etc. etc.... 
My username should actually read: Lunar Savage (damn you WotC!)
*Tips top hat, adjusts monocle, and walks away with cane* and yes, that IS Mr. Peanut laying unconscious on the curb.
http://asylumjournals.tumblr.com/
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