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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 10:55PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2008
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Sounds to me that they have a found a way to swap vancian and aedu styles within a reasonable page space.
Keeping something as a default, is also something I like very much as well.
Thats great news for all spellcaster fans. Good job wizards.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 10:59PM
#12
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My initial responses:
Each method for casting spells does seem to come with setting implications. Also, it should be the setting that explains magical theory (if any), so supplying different settings with the ability to use different mechanics is kind of neat.
I wonder how psionic fits in here? Can psionic be the name for one of these spellcasting methods? For example, the 3e Psion sets a precedent for the Wizard that uses psionic power points as the spellcasting system.
I wonder how the Cleric fits in here? Could there be a “white wizard” healing tradition?
Since all methods must use the same spells, if one method is noticeably better than the others, it is possible to recalibrate the advancement table. Similarly if one method is noticeably worse off than the others.
The Warlock and the Sorcerer - if they exist at all - will need to be salient class concepts with their own reason for existence. They cant be just a different method for spellcasting. Ultimately a good thing for solid classes.
Heh, grognards will continue to grin if vancian is the “default” and other methods are the “options”.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:06PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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My initial responses:
The methods for casting spells does seem like it comes with setting implications. It should be the setting that explains magical theory (if any), so supplying different settings with the ability to use different mechanics is kind of neat.
I wonder how psionic fits in here? Can psionic be the name for one of these spellcasting methods? For example, to 3e Psion sets a precedent for the Wizard that uses psionic power points as the spellcasting system.
Since all methods must use the same spells, it becomes easier to ensure balance. If one method is noticeably better than the others, it is possible to recalibrate the advancement table. Similarly if one method is noticeably worse off than the others.
The Warlock and the Sorcerer - if they exist at all - will need to be salient class concepts with their own reason for existence. They cant be just a different method for spellcasting. Ultimately a good thing for solid classes.
Heh, grognards will continue to grin if vancian is the “default” and other methods are the “options”.
Fo Sho. This could also tie into how the multiclassing system is coming along, 'cause what sort of system they ultimately go with will have a pretty hefty impact on how many classes they need or want. The 3e sorcerer/wizard was essentially exactly what Mearls is talking about here but he wants it expressed in one table. Hmm. Musing right along, I wonder if that'll kill the ultimate mage sort of character? Or maybe you could be a wizard(vancian)/wizard(aedu). I don't actually think they'll rip every system we know word for word but just as an example.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:10PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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Yay! Now I can just ignore the systems I don't like and get on with my world building. Saves me a lot of trouble.
Thank you Mr Mearls.
I'm still curious about those traditions they were talking about. I hope we get a taste of what they will look like in the next packet.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:18PM
#15
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@Kadim. It seems like you could swap in a different system for other mages too, like the Cleric class and Druid class?
@Tlantl. Yeah. Different groups will choose different systems, often switching them for different settings. Being able ignore systems, prevents “a lot of trouble”.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:20PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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While a lot of this certainly sounds fantastic on paper, I worry about the implications in practice. I don't want DMs to be able to take this as license to say any more crap like "We're using this casting system here, and you can't use your preferred casting system because it doesn't fit my setting" when yes, it very well ****ing does, you self-centered amateur with a god complex. Saying "We're not sure how to handle it, so... y'all figure it it with your DMs?" just strikes me as a cop out. I'm certain that they can do better.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:21PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2012
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It kind of seems like they're going the Unearthed Arcane route with this one. It makes for good hearing.
The metagame is not the game.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:41PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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@Kadim. It seems like you could swap in a different system for other mages too, like the Cleric class and Druid class?
I don't see why not, but it does look kinda weird on the character sheet. :D While a lot of this certainly sounds fantastic on paper, I worry about the implications in practice. I don't want DMs to be able to take this as license to say any more crap like "We're using this casting system here, and you can't use your preferred casting system because it doesn't fit my setting" when yes, it very well ****ing does, you self-centered amateur with a god complex. Saying "We're not sure how to handle it, so... y'all figure it it with your DMs?" just strikes me as a cop out. I'm certain that they can do better.
To be fair dude, the DM can more or less decide how they want it to go now and if you're not happy about a decision then there are social conventions you can follow to dispute that. Or you can make a different character; that's just how the game goes. My worry about it is actually exactly the opposite: players will feel entitled to pick whatever they see in print irrespective of what fits in the DM's game. I agree that the whole watchword of throwing it in the hands probably is a cop out, but I also kinda like the side effect of empowering DMs to manipulate the rules freely again.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 11:59PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2012
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My biggest worry about this appraoch is the implications of each system. Some system may seem "better" mecahnically than other systems. A good example of this is the 2nd edition books the Skills and Powers that brought in alternate spell point systems and the like. All the freedom of choice that these books gave took min maxing to a new extreme level.
I still prefer the idea that Wizards use one type of casting system and warlocks and sorceres have there own as well. So it can come down to the DM simply saying what classes he allows and not have to have players that choose one class then have 3 different options on how mechanically that class will be played. And then fight with the DM if he does not like the other 2 options.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 12:07AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2010
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When it comes to listening to customers he is incredibly thick. When he gets what they want he still be's thick about it. This way what happens is more work is dumped on DM and still leaves players mostly in the dark about choice. For something that is so important to the class andd the way it is played cannot the ball be put in the players court and allow them to choose their casting method. I think too much of his personal preferances are poisoning choices.
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