"Yes, but" works well as a variant on "Yes, and", yet it doesn't get a lot of respect.
That's because it can very easily turn into a way to discourage (consciously or not) player ideas. Look for it to be used whenever an idea is clever and cool, but would really foul up some set plan the DM already had.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
Gotcha. If a situation arrises, assess it and if border line, side with players until I can resolve it in detail after the adventure.
Also, I downloaded that D&D Next and read through it all. It doesn't have as much to it as I'd like. For instance, races and classes. It just gives the 4 original options, where 4E has many race options. Also, the Next advises to roll dice in figuring out your stat #'s...that's how we did it in our compaign, but I don't like that at all. We have a girl in the group who consistently rolls 5's and 6's and she had maxed out 3 of her stats already. Just doesn't seem fair when another in the group happens to roll poorly and gets stuck with low stats. There's gotta be a better way...is there? Like I think each race should have a standard starting point of STR/WIS/INT/DEX/CON/CHA and then based on what class is chosen, they get added stat points to whichever is fitted for that class. Like, if someone chooses to be a wizard, and rolls enough high dice to where they can have an INT of 18 and a STR of 18, that's just kind of ridiculous. But I am only going fro what I've been playing...so please don't hold me to following any actual rules or what have you.
Can someone clarify these stats for me and character generating? For instance, my friend just texted me and said he wants to be a neutral/evil human sorcerer...he wants to be a Gambit type character.
As time goes on, they'll add more races for D&D Next. But for now, they have to be sure the core game is balanced, and the best way to do that is to start with the basics.
Rolling stats is traditional. And there's many ways to do that. My method: each player rolls 3 sets of 6 ability scores. For each roll, they roll 4d6 and drop the lowest die. This usually gives a broad range of scores across the three sets. The player then chooses the set they like most and assigns each score in the set to an ability. This method also usually errs on the side of higher results for all players. An alternate method would be to let them mix and match numbers across the various sets, taking only the 6 numbers they like most, which will likely result in very powerful starting PCs. You could also attach limits to that, enforcing that the total of the mixed and matched numbers can't be higher than say 85.
Alternatively, you can just use point buy. It's a solid set up and forces the players to think about the role they want to take on and how they want their numbers to influence the character. In fact, the point buy method sounds perfect for you. It usually forces players to choose between stats, so the wizard can't have 18 STR and 18 INT because there's just not enough points to spend.
I'm not sure what you mean by clarifying stats...but I'll give it a shot.
Each stat is vital to the life of the character.
Strength represents physical prowess and the ability to deal damage in melee combat and move heavy things or do other great acts of physical interaction. Usually used most by barbarians, fighters, and other heavy melee classes and races.
Dexterity represents ability to move lithely and quickly. It effects mostly ranged combat and represents a character's ability to dodge incoming attacks or avoid a trap. It can also be used for fine motor skills like lockpicking. Rogues love this ability, so do some other classes.
Constitution represents general health of a character. It influences Hit Points, fortitude, and other various concepts relating to a character's health. All classes and races can benefit equally from this ability score.
Intelligence represents the level of knowledge and ability to learn and memorize. Influences many skills and helps determine skill point gains during level up. Is loved by Wizards (for spell requirements) and Rogues (for being skill hounds).
Wisdom represents how well the character can apply knowledge and gain insights to the world around them. Mostly based around intuition, faith, understanding, and morals. Clerics and druids benefit most from this ability. And I think monks, right?
Charisma represents how sociable and pretty a character is or can be. Those with high charisma can usually find a way to gain quick friendships with NPCs in the world. Whether through a silver tongue or a stunning beauty. Sorcerers love this ability as it is inherent to their abilities with spells. This is also the bard's primary ability score because it's what they do. Do paladins benefit from this too or was that wisdom for them? I can't remember, someone feel free to speak up.
Awesome, thanks! I like the point buy method. is 85 a good # to go by? And also, do I have it right in thinking 18 is the highest?
85 for that particular dice rolling method? I'm not sure. I've never personally done that, I just know it can be used. And it was a random number off the top of my head.
85/6 = 16.16, so you'll have an average set of ability scores around 16 each with such a method, provided the rolls were good. And all 16s is actually on the much stronger end for a starting set of scores...in fact, it's almost too powerful, but with luck factored in from dice rolls, it's unlikely that anyone would actually have 16 across the board.
And yes, 18 is the highest. DMs can alter this if they wish, but I personally would advise against it.
Considering you like point buy, odds are good that you know how that works already. For those that might not, here's a quick explanation of how it works:
Each ability score starts at 8. The DM assigns the players a pool of points, say 30 points.
STR - 8 DEX - 8 CON - 8 INT - 8 WIS - 8 CHA - 8
At this point, each point you buy for an ability costs you 1 point from your pool. So, say you bump STR to 9, you now have 29 points left to spend.
Each point costs 1 point, until you reach 14. After reaching 14, each point costs 2 points from your pool. So if I bump STR to 15 from 8, that costs me a total of 8 points and leaves my pool with 22 points left to spend. 1 point per point until 14, then 2 points to reach the score of 15. The points cost 2 per until 16. After reaching 16 you need to spend 3 points to reach 17 and another 3 points to reach 18.
Here's a quick guide of ability score to point cost.
So, if you have a pool of 30 points to spend, and you bump a score all the way to 18, you've spent just over half your available points to max a score out. The DM can adjust the abilities to go higher than 18 or he can adjust the amount of given points in the pool so players can have higher starting ability scores all around if he's aiming for a high powered campaign. He can also adjust for less points in the pool so players can have lower powered campaigns. If should happen to allow a max ability score of 20, then 19 would also cost another 3 points and it should cost 4 points to reach 20.
Anyway, hope this helps.
My username should actually read: Lunar Savage (damn you WotC!) *Tips top hat, adjusts monocle, and walks away with cane* and yes, that IS Mr. Peanut laying unconscious on the curb. http://asylumjournals.tumblr.com/
Gotcha. If a situation arrises, assess it and if border line, side with players until I can resolve it in detail after the adventure.
Also, I downloaded that D&D Next and read through it all. It doesn't have as much to it as I'd like. For instance, races and classes. It just gives the 4 original options, where 4E has many race options. Also, the Next advises to roll dice in figuring out your stat #'s...that's how we did it in our compaign, but I don't like that at all. We have a girl in the group who consistently rolls 5's and 6's and she had maxed out 3 of her stats already. Just doesn't seem fair when another in the group happens to roll poorly and gets stuck with low stats. There's gotta be a better way...is there? Like I think each race should have a standard starting point of STR/WIS/INT/DEX/CON/CHA and then based on what class is chosen, they get added stat points to whichever is fitted for that class. Like, if someone chooses to be a wizard, and rolls enough high dice to where they can have an INT of 18 and a STR of 18, that's just kind of ridiculous. But I am only going fro what I've been playing...so please don't hold me to following any actual rules or what have you.
Can someone clarify these stats for me and character generating? For instance, my friend just texted me and said he wants to be a neutral/evil human sorcerer...he wants to be a Gambit type character.
As time goes on, they'll add more races for D&D Next. But for now, they have to be sure the core game is balanced, and the best way to do that is to start with the basics.
Rolling stats is traditional. And there's many ways to do that. My method: each player rolls 3 sets of 6 ability scores. For each roll, they roll 4d6 and drop the lowest die. This usually gives a broad range of scores across the three sets. The player then chooses the set they like most and assigns each score in the set to an ability. This method also usually errs on the side of higher results for all players. An alternate method would be to let them mix and match numbers across the various sets, taking only the 6 numbers they like most, which will likely result in very powerful starting PCs. You could also attach limits to that, enforcing that the total of the mixed and matched numbers can't be higher than say 85.
Alternatively, you can just use point buy. It's a solid set up and forces the players to think about the role they want to take on and how they want their numbers to influence the character. In fact, the point buy method sounds perfect for you. It usually forces players to choose between stats, so the wizard can't have 18 STR and 18 INT because there's just not enough points to spend.
I'm not sure what you mean by clarifying stats...but I'll give it a shot.
Each stat is vital to the life of the character.
Strength represents physical prowess and the ability to deal damage in melee combat and move heavy things or do other great acts of physical interaction. Usually used most by barbarians, fighters, and other heavy melee classes and races.
Dexterity represents ability to move lithely and quickly. It effects mostly ranged combat and represents a character's ability to dodge incoming attacks or avoid a trap. It can also be used for fine motor skills like lockpicking. Rogues love this ability, so do some other classes.
Constitution represents general health of a character. It influences Hit Points, fortitude, and other various concepts relating to a character's health. All classes and races can benefit equally from this ability score.
Intelligence represents the level of knowledge and ability to learn and memorize. Influences many skills and helps determine skill point gains during level up. Is loved by Wizards (for spell requirements) and Rogues (for being skill hounds).
Wisdom represents how well the character can apply knowledge and gain insights to the world around them. Mostly based around intuition, faith, understanding, and morals. Clerics and druids benefit most from this ability. And I think monks, right?
Charisma represents how sociable and pretty a character is or can be. Those with high charisma can usually find a way to gain quick friendships with NPCs in the world. Whether through a silver tongue or a stunning beauty. Sorcerers love this ability as it is inherent to their abilities with spells. This is also the bard's primary ability score because it's what they do. Do paladins benefit from this too or was that wisdom for them? I can't remember, someone feel free to speak up.
Awesome, thanks! I like the point buy method. is 85 a good # to go by? And also, do I have it right in thinking 18 is the highest?
85 for that particular dice rolling method? I'm not sure. I've never personally done that, I just know it can be used. And it was a random number off the top of my head.
85/6 = 16.16, so you'll have an average set of ability scores around 16 each with such a method, provided the rolls were good. And all 16s is actually on the much stronger end for a starting set of scores...in fact, it's almost too powerful, but with luck factored in from dice rolls, it's unlikely that anyone would actually have 16 across the board.
And yes, 18 is the highest. DMs can alter this if they wish, but I personally would advise against it.
Considering you like point buy, odds are good that you know how that works already. For those that might not, here's a quick explanation of how it works:
Each ability score starts at 8. The DM assigns the players a pool of points, say 30 points.
STR - 8 DEX - 8 CON - 8 INT - 8 WIS - 8 CHA - 8
At this point, each point you buy for an ability costs you 1 point from your pool. So, say you bump STR to 9, you now have 29 points left to spend.
Each point costs 1 point, until you reach 14. After reaching 14, each point costs 2 points from your pool. So if I bump STR to 15 from 8, that costs me a total of 8 points and leaves my pool with 22 points left to spend. 1 point per point until 14, then 2 points to reach the score of 15. The points cost 2 per until 16. After reaching 16 you need to spend 3 points to reach 17 and another 3 points to reach 18.
Here's a quick guide of ability score to point cost.
So, if you have a pool of 30 points to spend, and you bump a score all the way to 18, you've spent just over half your available points to max a score out. The DM can adjust the abilities to go higher than 18 or he can adjust the amount of given points in the pool so players can have higher starting ability scores all around if he's aiming for a high powered campaign. He can also adjust for less points in the pool so players can have lower powered campaigns. If should happen to allow a max ability score of 20, then 19 would also cost another 3 points and it should cost 4 points to reach 20.
Anyway, hope this helps.
This helps a ton. I am going to go with your suggestions. I'm giving 35 points to spend though. I did a few different variations and it works out to be a nice balance.
How does a DM keep track of all the players? Basically, Do we trust they are being honest with their spendings and earnings? For instance, hit points, action points, skills/powers, etc. The 4th edition has a lot going on...which on one hand I love (it doesn't intimidate me), but on another, being a first time DM, player fairness and control may be a little bit of a struggle on the get go. Any advice or suggestions on this??
I think I'm going right into the 4th edition totally...all options, characters, rules. I see there are a couple versions of the PH/MM/DM guide...I suppose it's preferance, but which ones would I want?? Keeping in mind I want the most up to date options.
I think I'm going right into the 4th edition totally...all options, characters, rules. I see there are a couple versions of the PH/MM/DM guide...I suppose it's preferance, but which ones would I want?? Keeping in mind I want the most up to date options.
Keep in mind that 4th Edition has its own point-buy method. Read up on that in one of the player handbooks.
I still stand by the original PHB, DMG and Monster Manual. They work fine, though they're improved by some rules updates, which you can find on the main website. If you don't want to mess with updates, try using the Essentials-based books. They're not perfect, but they have clarified some issues with the original rules.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
I think I'm going right into the 4th edition totally...all options, characters, rules. I see there are a couple versions of the PH/MM/DM guide...I suppose it's preferance, but which ones would I want?? Keeping in mind I want the most up to date options.
Keep in mind that 4th Edition has its own point-buy method. Read up on that in one of the player handbooks.
I still stand by the original PHB, DMG and Monster Manual. They work fine, though they're improved by some rules updates, which you can find on the main website. If you don't want to mess with updates, try using the Essentials-based books. They're not perfect, but they have clarified some issues with the original rules.
I didn't realize 4e had it's own point buy. Definitely look that up.
I too will stand by the original PHB, DMG, and MM in any edition. I view most other additions to those core books not so much as updates, but as expansions that add new content, not modifying existing content (though I'm sure one or two probably do alter a thing here and there).
As for keeping track of players, I do a mix of tracking my own and letting them track themselves. This requires trust. But I always also need to have access to their character sheets so I can balance things during the prep work. If it's not on the sheet or I don't have access, I do have my notes. Those notes are about key things I want to remember, like how much gold they should have or what items they have access to. As for earnings, that you should know, as you're giving them the earnings.
If you don't trust them at all, ask for copies of the character sheets. If you have a level of trust with them, just keep important notes for yourself so you can balance when creating an encounter. If you have total trust in them, let them keep everything and just concern yourself with creation. (for the record, I keep notes, character sheets, and anything else, because I'm okay with book keeping, plus I don't necessarily trust myself to remember the small details from session to session, so best to write it all down).
My username should actually read: Lunar Savage (damn you WotC!) *Tips top hat, adjusts monocle, and walks away with cane* and yes, that IS Mr. Peanut laying unconscious on the curb. http://asylumjournals.tumblr.com/
How does a DM keep track of all the players? Basically, Do we trust they are being honest with their spendings and earnings? For instance, hit points, action points, skills/powers, etc. The 4th edition has a lot going on...which on one hand I love (it doesn't intimidate me), but on another, being a first time DM, player fairness and control may be a little bit of a struggle on the get go. Any advice or suggestions on this??
Based on my own experience with a group where everyone including the DM started out new to D&D, some mistakes will be made. You'll have a power that someone is using incorrectly, or you'll misinterpret a rule, or you'll make what seems like a very reasonable house rule that turns out to be a bad idea down the line. As long as no one is purposely trying to cheat, these things will eventually be self-correcting as you learn the game better. If you have players who might try to break the rules on purpose...that's another issue.
I didn't realize 4e had it's own point buy. Definitely look that up.
Reverse-engineered from the character builder program:
Start with all stats at 10 and 20 points to spend. You may drop one stat down to 8, giving you 22 points to spend. However, no stat may be below 8 and only one stat may be below 10. Then you can spend the points as follows.
If the current stat is 8-12, it costs 1 point to raise it by 1. If the current stat is 13-15, it costs 2 points to raise it by 1. If the current stat is 16, it costs 3 points to raise it by 1. If the current stat is 17, it costs 4 points to raise it by 1.
You may not raise a stat past 18 with the point-buy. However, your racial stat bonuses apply after this, so you can raise it to 18, then have it get bumped to 20.
Start with all stats at 10 and 20 points to spend. You may drop one stat down to 8, giving you 22 points to spend. However, no stat may be below 8 and only one stat may be below 10. Then you can spend the points as follows.
If the current stat is 8-12, it costs 1 point to raise it by 1. If the current stat is 13-15, it costs 2 points to raise it by 1. If the current stat is 16, it costs 3 points to raise it by 1. If the current stat is 17, it costs 4 points to raise it by 1.
You may not raise a stat past 18 with the point-buy. However, your racial stat bonuses apply after this, so you can raise it to 18, then have it get bumped to 20.
Right, that's how it's detailed in the PHB and in some of the Heroes of ... books.
I almost always use a standard array: 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
I almost always use a standard array: 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10.
When I don't use that, it's either because I've got a race with stat bonuses that don't line up perfectly with the class, or else because my character is going to be somewhat unoptimized for RP reasons. For instance, I was trying to make a character based on Robin Hood. Archer Ranger is the obvious class, but that's not a charisma-based class, and I can't imagine Robin Hood without charisma. So I decided to avoid Ranger powers that use Wisdom in order to bump up Charisma, then multiclass into Rogue to get training in Bluff, then take a Rogue paragon path.
Iserith, in our last game, threw in an interesting idea I hadn't seen before... skill tests with complications. If you do really well, you succeed. If you do so-so, you succeed but there's a complication. If you do poorly, you fail and there may be a complication.
The complications may relate directly to the skill test... or they may not. In that game I did so-so on a diplomacy check, so I got what I wanted out of the target - and a couple monsters showed up to try to eat her.
Thanks for the nod. You summed up the technique perfectly and I shamelessly stole this basic "relative success" mechanic from Dungeon World. It broadens the range at which you succeed at what you're attempting and adds a range at which complication without failure can occur rather than just a failure which is often pretty boring.
I'd caution against this for someone learning the rules as this technique, while very fun and useful, isn't strictly speaking in line with the rules as written. It's also fairly dissociative as you point out - complications don't have to relate directly to the skill check - and could be a sticking point for some, especially those in the simulationist camp.
No amount of tips, tricks, or gimmicks will ever be better than simply talking directly to your fellow players to resolve your issues. Reduce DM Prep & Increase Player Engagement:Don't Prep the Plot | Structure First, Story Last | Collaborative Roleplay | "Yes, and..." | Prep Tips Games I'm Running on Roll20: Island of the Frog | Vanguard of Dis | Star*Juice | Tesseract | The Crucible | Fimbulvetr | The Delve | Draj, City of the Moon Follow me on Twitter:@is3rith
