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Switch to Forum Live View Brand new DM looking into 4th edition
9 months ago  ::  Sep 30, 2012 - 4:03PM #11
PestilenceX
Date Joined: Mar 23, 2008
Posts: 146
Welcome to DMing Earlymann

Going back to your question there are several ways to go. 3.5 and Pathfinder have a lot of followers still so it's not like t,hat is a bad edition just becuase there is a 4th edition right now.

Personally I like 4th a bit better, but what work best for you depends mostly on what you want to do.

There are also two aspects of what you have to think about

One would be what you want to do differently storywise. This is something that is independant of rules as for example Forgotten Realms is a setting you can use no matter what edition you use. I even have a DM right now who is using a premade adventure from 3.5, but using 4th edition monsters instead. He just felt the story was so good we just had to play it once ourselves.

Second would be obviously the ruleset. A lot of people here will be proDM ofcourse, but seeing players have to give the DM a lot of power it is also important that players feel the DM is using that power fairly so I think setting clear rules is sometimes a good thing especially when you are a new DM and you are bound to make mistakes.

I often see the DM more as a faciliator giving the players the tools to play their own story. Ofcourse some players need more guidance then other xD

But anyhow could you tell us a bit more about what you have been playng so far and what you would like differently? That would make it easier for us to point you to what would be best for you.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 01, 2012 - 1:27PM #12
Litmus
Date Joined: May 7, 2011
Posts: 394

Sep 30, 2012 -- 1:25PM, mvincent wrote:



Alternately, the playtest material for D&D Next might interest your particular group. 




I'd give this a try before looking at 4e; it's free and you'll be getting regular updates.  It should be easier to get a grip on as a new DM too, as you've got far less material than 4e to get your head around.  I also believe that it's critical for the success of 5e that they get feedback from new DMs and players as well as the crusty old veterans that tend to dominate these boards...

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 6:27AM #13
EarlyMann
Date Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 15
Thanks for all the replies guys!! I really appreciate it.

What exactly is D&D Next?

Everyone I play with are new to D&D. I've always been interested in it, but didn't know my friends would go along. The sticking point was a season 2 episode of Community where they play D&D for fat Neil lol. The only experienced one out of us is our current DM. We have 5 PC's, so basically our current DM and myself will switch. The new versions/rules/etc. won't make much difference to us. In fact, I think they may embrace it more because it has more structure than what we've been playing under the DM.

My friend wants me to be the DM because he feels I would create better adventures (eventually after getting into for a bit) and follow more of a story/adventure line that he enjoys. We both love Tolkien and Game of Thrones. I'm not much of a reader at all...he is though. I am aware of the Forgotten Realms books (my father used to read them and I read a couple myself). That sort of adventuring is excellent for us.

I will look into the Red Box, as I do need everything to get started. Our current DM has a lot, but I want my own. Plus he has everything in photo copies and on the computer and it just seems a mess. I don't even know if HE has everything! Are the books that come with it all up to date for 4E?

Is there any other information or suggestions you guys can give me for a smooth game play?

Thanks
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 9:06AM #14
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,999

Oct 3, 2012 -- 6:27AM, EarlyMann wrote:

Is there any other information or suggestions you guys can give me for a smooth game play?


Don't check the rules during the game. Make a temporary ruling and go. Often what you want to find out won't have a rule for it anyway. If you want to check before the session is over, do it during a normal break. Otherwise, wait until after the game.

Accept and add on to player ideas as much as possible. This is the "Yes, and..." approach. It makes for a less controlled game than if you say "No" to every idea that you're not sure how to handle, but it fosters trust, respect, and creativity.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 9:49AM #15
EarlyMann
Date Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 15
Gotcha. If a situation arrises, assess it and if border line, side with players until I can resolve it in detail after the adventure.

Also, I downloaded that D&D Next and read through it all. It doesn't have as much to it as I'd like. For instance, races and classes. It just gives the 4 original options, where 4E has many race options. Also, the Next advises to roll dice in figuring out your stat #'s...that's how we did it in our compaign, but I don't like that at all. We have a girl in the group who consistently rolls 5's and 6's and she had maxed out 3 of her stats already. Just doesn't seem fair when another in the group happens to roll poorly and gets stuck with low stats. There's gotta be a better way...is there? Like I think each race should have a standard starting point of STR/WIS/INT/DEX/CON/CHA and then based on what class is chosen, they get added stat points to whichever is fitted for that class. Like, if someone chooses to be a wizard, and rolls enough high dice to where they can have an INT of 18 and a STR of 18, that's just kind of ridiculous. But I am only going fro what I've been playing...so please don't hold me to following any actual rules or what have you.

Can someone clarify these stats for me and character generating? For instance, my friend just texted me and said he wants to be a neutral/evil human sorcerer...he wants to be a Gambit type character.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 9:51AM #16
FlatFoot
Date Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 502

Oct 3, 2012 -- 6:27AM, EarlyMann wrote:

Thanks for all the replies guys!! I really appreciate it.

What exactly is D&D Next?

Everyone I play with are new to D&D. I've always been interested in it, but didn't know my friends would go along. The sticking point was a season 2 episode of Community where they play D&D for fat Neil lol. The only experienced one out of us is our current DM. We have 5 PC's, so basically our current DM and myself will switch. The new versions/rules/etc. won't make much difference to us. In fact, I think they may embrace it more because it has more structure than what we've been playing under the DM.

My friend wants me to be the DM because he feels I would create better adventures (eventually after getting into for a bit) and follow more of a story/adventure line that he enjoys. We both love Tolkien and Game of Thrones. I'm not much of a reader at all...he is though. I am aware of the Forgotten Realms books (my father used to read them and I read a couple myself). That sort of adventuring is excellent for us.

I will look into the Red Box, as I do need everything to get started. Our current DM has a lot, but I want my own. Plus he has everything in photo copies and on the computer and it just seems a mess. I don't even know if HE has everything! Are the books that come with it all up to date for 4E?

Is there any other information or suggestions you guys can give me for a smooth game play?

Thanks


D&D Next is what will be 5th edition in the next couple of years and is currently in playtest. You can sign up for the playtest here.

For more advice I strongly recommend reading Chris Perkins's The DM Experience. A lot of good stuff in those articles.

Funny thing, that Community episode is what got me back into D&D. Cool 

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 9:53AM #17
Centauri
Date Joined: Jul 21, 2004
Posts: 9,999

Oct 3, 2012 -- 9:49AM, EarlyMann wrote:

Can someone clarify these stats for me and character generating? For instance, my friend just texted me and said he wants to be a neutral/evil human sorcerer...he wants to be a Gambit type character.


You need to be prepared for lots of bumps if you're trying to use D&D Next, it's an early play test.

[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 10:08AM #18
LunarSavage
Date Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 1,206

Oct 3, 2012 -- 9:49AM, EarlyMann wrote:

Gotcha. If a situation arrises, assess it and if border line, side with players until I can resolve it in detail after the adventure.

Also, I downloaded that D&D Next and read through it all. It doesn't have as much to it as I'd like. For instance, races and classes. It just gives the 4 original options, where 4E has many race options. Also, the Next advises to roll dice in figuring out your stat #'s...that's how we did it in our compaign, but I don't like that at all. We have a girl in the group who consistently rolls 5's and 6's and she had maxed out 3 of her stats already. Just doesn't seem fair when another in the group happens to roll poorly and gets stuck with low stats. There's gotta be a better way...is there? Like I think each race should have a standard starting point of STR/WIS/INT/DEX/CON/CHA and then based on what class is chosen, they get added stat points to whichever is fitted for that class. Like, if someone chooses to be a wizard, and rolls enough high dice to where they can have an INT of 18 and a STR of 18, that's just kind of ridiculous. But I am only going fro what I've been playing...so please don't hold me to following any actual rules or what have you.

Can someone clarify these stats for me and character generating? For instance, my friend just texted me and said he wants to be a neutral/evil human sorcerer...he wants to be a Gambit type character.




As time goes on, they'll add more races for D&D Next. But for now, they have to be sure the core game is balanced, and the best way to do that is to start with the basics.

Rolling stats is traditional. And there's many ways to do that. My method: each player rolls 3 sets of 6 ability scores. For each roll, they roll 4d6 and drop the lowest die. This usually gives a broad range of scores across the three sets. The player then chooses the set they like most and assigns each score in the set to an ability. This method also usually errs on the side of higher results for all players. An alternate method would be to let them mix and match numbers across the various sets, taking only the 6 numbers they like most, which will likely result in very powerful starting PCs. You could also attach limits to that, enforcing that the total of the mixed and matched numbers can't be higher than say 85.

Alternatively, you can just use point buy. It's a solid set up and forces the players to think about the role they want to take on and how they want their numbers to influence the character. In fact, the point buy method sounds perfect for you. It usually forces players to choose between stats, so the wizard can't have 18 STR and 18 INT because there's just not enough points to spend.

I'm not sure what you mean by clarifying stats...but I'll give it a shot.

Each stat is vital to the life of the character.

Strength represents physical prowess and the ability to deal damage in melee combat and move heavy things or do other great acts of physical interaction. Usually used most by barbarians, fighters, and other heavy melee classes and races.

Dexterity represents ability to move lithely and quickly. It effects mostly ranged combat and represents a character's ability to dodge incoming attacks or avoid a trap. It can also be used for fine motor skills like lockpicking. Rogues love this ability, so do some other classes.

Constitution represents general health of a character. It influences Hit Points, fortitude, and other various concepts relating to a character's health. All classes and races can benefit equally from this ability score.

Intelligence represents the level of knowledge and ability to learn and memorize. Influences many skills and helps determine skill point gains during level up. Is loved by Wizards (for spell requirements) and Rogues (for being skill hounds).

Wisdom represents how well the character can apply knowledge and gain insights to the world around them. Mostly based around intuition, faith, understanding, and morals. Clerics and druids benefit most from this ability. And I think monks, right?

Charisma represents how sociable and pretty a character is or can be. Those with high charisma can usually find a way to gain quick friendships with NPCs in the world. Whether through a silver tongue or a stunning beauty. Sorcerers love this ability as it is inherent to their abilities with spells. This is also the bard's primary ability score because it's what they do. Do paladins benefit from this too or was that wisdom for them? I can't remember, someone feel free to speak up.

My username should actually read: Lunar Savage (damn you WotC!)
*Tips top hat, adjusts monocle, and walks away with cane* and yes, that IS Mr. Peanut laying unconscious on the curb.
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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 11:16AM #19
EarlyMann
Date Joined: Sep 30, 2012
Posts: 15

Oct 3, 2012 -- 10:08AM, LunarSavage wrote:

Oct 3, 2012 -- 9:49AM, EarlyMann wrote:

Gotcha. If a situation arrises, assess it and if border line, side with players until I can resolve it in detail after the adventure.

Also, I downloaded that D&D Next and read through it all. It doesn't have as much to it as I'd like. For instance, races and classes. It just gives the 4 original options, where 4E has many race options. Also, the Next advises to roll dice in figuring out your stat #'s...that's how we did it in our compaign, but I don't like that at all. We have a girl in the group who consistently rolls 5's and 6's and she had maxed out 3 of her stats already. Just doesn't seem fair when another in the group happens to roll poorly and gets stuck with low stats. There's gotta be a better way...is there? Like I think each race should have a standard starting point of STR/WIS/INT/DEX/CON/CHA and then based on what class is chosen, they get added stat points to whichever is fitted for that class. Like, if someone chooses to be a wizard, and rolls enough high dice to where they can have an INT of 18 and a STR of 18, that's just kind of ridiculous. But I am only going fro what I've been playing...so please don't hold me to following any actual rules or what have you.

Can someone clarify these stats for me and character generating? For instance, my friend just texted me and said he wants to be a neutral/evil human sorcerer...he wants to be a Gambit type character.




As time goes on, they'll add more races for D&D Next. But for now, they have to be sure the core game is balanced, and the best way to do that is to start with the basics.

Rolling stats is traditional. And there's many ways to do that. My method: each player rolls 3 sets of 6 ability scores. For each roll, they roll 4d6 and drop the lowest die. This usually gives a broad range of scores across the three sets. The player then chooses the set they like most and assigns each score in the set to an ability. This method also usually errs on the side of higher results for all players. An alternate method would be to let them mix and match numbers across the various sets, taking only the 6 numbers they like most, which will likely result in very powerful starting PCs. You could also attach limits to that, enforcing that the total of the mixed and matched numbers can't be higher than say 85.

Alternatively, you can just use point buy. It's a solid set up and forces the players to think about the role they want to take on and how they want their numbers to influence the character. In fact, the point buy method sounds perfect for you. It usually forces players to choose between stats, so the wizard can't have 18 STR and 18 INT because there's just not enough points to spend.

I'm not sure what you mean by clarifying stats...but I'll give it a shot.

Each stat is vital to the life of the character.

Strength represents physical prowess and the ability to deal damage in melee combat and move heavy things or do other great acts of physical interaction. Usually used most by barbarians, fighters, and other heavy melee classes and races.

Dexterity represents ability to move lithely and quickly. It effects mostly ranged combat and represents a character's ability to dodge incoming attacks or avoid a trap. It can also be used for fine motor skills like lockpicking. Rogues love this ability, so do some other classes.

Constitution represents general health of a character. It influences Hit Points, fortitude, and other various concepts relating to a character's health. All classes and races can benefit equally from this ability score.

Intelligence represents the level of knowledge and ability to learn and memorize. Influences many skills and helps determine skill point gains during level up. Is loved by Wizards (for spell requirements) and Rogues (for being skill hounds).

Wisdom represents how well the character can apply knowledge and gain insights to the world around them. Mostly based around intuition, faith, understanding, and morals. Clerics and druids benefit most from this ability. And I think monks, right?

Charisma represents how sociable and pretty a character is or can be. Those with high charisma can usually find a way to gain quick friendships with NPCs in the world. Whether through a silver tongue or a stunning beauty. Sorcerers love this ability as it is inherent to their abilities with spells. This is also the bard's primary ability score because it's what they do. Do paladins benefit from this too or was that wisdom for them? I can't remember, someone feel free to speak up.




Awesome, thanks! I like the point buy method. is 85 a good # to go by? And also, do I have it right in thinking 18 is the highest?

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9 months ago  ::  Oct 03, 2012 - 3:48PM #20
warrl
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2009
Posts: 5,267

Oct 3, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Centauri wrote:

Accept and add on to player ideas as much as possible. This is the "Yes, and..." approach. It makes for a less controlled game than if you say "No" to every idea that you're not sure how to handle, but it fosters trust, respect, and creativity.


"Yes, but" works well as a variant on "Yes, and", yet it doesn't get a lot of respect. Include it for variety.

Iserith, in our last game, threw in an interesting idea I hadn't seen before... skill tests with complications. If you do really well, you succeed. If you do so-so, you succeed but there's a complication. If you do poorly, you fail and there may be a complication.

The complications may relate directly to the skill test... or they may not. In that game I did so-so on a diplomacy check, so I got what I wanted out of the target - and a couple monsters showed up to try to eat her. 

"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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