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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 8:00AM
#1
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So, there is a lot of discusssion and differing viewpoints on what exactly is a 1st level character. Are they humble starting inexperienced fools who just got their first suit of armor, sword, spellbook, holy symbol, or theives' tools? Are they mildly competent adventurers who've seen a little of what the world has to offer and want more? Are they action movie badasses, (Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris, Milla Jovovich, Sigourney Weaver, Sylvester Stallone), whose badassery only gets badassier (that should be a word)? Are they some combination of some or all of these?
I'm curious and I think having a collection of these viewpoints will help.
Personally, I see them as somewhere between inexperienced fools and mildly competent. I don't really see 1st level as the badass action hero level.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 8:14AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2008
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Great thread orkbard  In my case, low levels inexperienced fools, mid levels competent adventurers, high levels movie stars. Gradual steps in between very much included.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 8:14AM
#3
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I see Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Episode IV is the iconic 1st-level hero. He's not a hapless infant. He's picked up some real skills, and he's got an improbable survivability thanks to heroic plot-armor. But he has no adventure experience. He's not a badass. And his name certainly isn't spoken in hushed tones all across the galaxy. Han Solo and Chewbacca, on the other hand, have been in a lot of scrapes, and people know who they are (unfortunately). They're mid-level. And of course Obi-Wan is well into a prestige class.
Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are more like 1st-level characters whose players chose to start as an NPC class for RP reasons. That's certainly fine if you want to do it, but they're not representative of the typical 1st-level D&D character.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 9:47AM
#4
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I see Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Episode IV is the iconic 1st-level hero. He's not a hapless infant. He's picked up some real skills, and he's got an improbable survivability thanks to heroic plot-armor. But he has no adventure experience. He's not a badass. And his name certainly isn't spoken in hushed tones all across the galaxy. Han Solo and Chewbacca, on the other hand, have been in a lot of scrapes, and people know who they are (unfortunately). They're mid-level. And of course Obi-Wan is well into a prestige class.
Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are more like 1st-level characters whose players chose to start as an NPC class for RP reasons. That's certainly fine if you want to do it, but they're not representative of the typical 1st-level D&D character.
This right here. Luke, for all his inexperience, could still bulls-eye womp rats in his T-16 back home. He's not some useless shmuck.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Roll dice, not cars.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 9:55AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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I see Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Episode IV is the iconic 1st-level hero. He's not a hapless infant. He's picked up some real skills, and he's got an improbable survivability thanks to heroic plot-armor. But he has no adventure experience. He's not a badass. And his name certainly isn't spoken in hushed tones all across the galaxy. Han Solo and Chewbacca, on the other hand, have been in a lot of scrapes, and people know who they are (unfortunately). They're mid-level. And of course Obi-Wan is well into a prestige class.
Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are more like 1st-level characters whose players chose to start as an NPC class for RP reasons. That's certainly fine if you want to do it, but they're not representative of the typical 1st-level D&D character.
This right here. Luke, for all his inexperience, could still bulls-eye womp rats in his T-16 back home. He's not some useless shmuck.
I agree with this. I feel that even level 1 heroes (and yes, they are heroes) are already a cut above (at least) common folks. So if a 1st level character is an "incompetent fool", then wouldn't that make the common folks barely able to even dress themselves?
This isn't saying that a 1st level hero should be storming castles and slaying dragons, but they should still feel like heroes. They can get beaten up, know the sting of defeat, probably have to run away at times, but they shouldn't feel like helpless buffoons who can't do anything right.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 9:59AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2008
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Hehe, just to clarify, I never advocated for incompetent fools, inexperenced but competent fools though yup I'd love that
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 10:00AM
#7
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I want my characters at level 1 to be trained and ready for adventure, but never had any. So, the paladin has trained for 5+ years as squire. The fighter might have held his fathers sword since he was 11. The Mage has studied sufficient to knows that adventuring is dangerous, and he should be prepared. Essentially, a level 1 char should be about the same as a level 1 monster, otherwise your character feels too useless to adventure.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 10:01AM
#8
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I see Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Episode IV is the iconic 1st-level hero. He's not a hapless infant. He's picked up some real skills, and he's got an improbable survivability thanks to heroic plot-armor. But he has no adventure experience. He's not a badass. And his name certainly isn't spoken in hushed tones all across the galaxy. Han Solo and Chewbacca, on the other hand, have been in a lot of scrapes, and people know who they are (unfortunately). They're mid-level. And of course Obi-Wan is well into a prestige class.
Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are more like 1st-level characters whose players chose to start as an NPC class for RP reasons. That's certainly fine if you want to do it, but they're not representative of the typical 1st-level D&D character.
This right here. Luke, for all his inexperience, could still bulls-eye womp rats in his T-16 back home. He's not some useless shmuck.
I agree with this. I feel that even level 1 heroes (and yes, they are heroes) are already a cut above (at least) common folks. So if a 1st level character is an "incompetent fool", then wouldn't that make the common folks barely able to even dress themselves?
This isn't saying that a 1st level hero should be storming castles and slaying dragons, but they should still feel like heroes. They can get beaten up, know the sting of defeat, probably have to run away at times, but they shouldn't feel like helpless buffoons who can't do anything right.
Add my voice to this chorus.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 10:08AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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For us they're generally what you call 'inexperienced fools' or even less (sometimes a LOT less). Take any random peasant on a medieval cart path, and that's a lvl 1 to us (magic notwithstanding). The ONLY difference between them and the bulk of npcs is that PCs have a spark which MIGHT allow them to make something of themselves, given the right circumstances and a LOT of luck.
We do not accept 'heroes' for many, MANY levels. Even when they're finally heroes we try to make them realistic heroes rather than mythological or superheros. That's reserved for the absolute top levels in the game (and then some).
This is mostly true in any game we play, and has been since ~1980 (when I first started playing), with just a few exceptions.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 10:18AM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2012
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In D&D - I see 1st level characters as "Young Professionals".
They've got a lot of technical know how - but no practical experience.
- That cleric has never had his faith challenged by either a rival faith - or the endless drudging encroachement of the inevitable victory of the undead.
- That mage has some good theory - but has never had a duel with another mage - has never read a forbidden text - or run afoul of Planar Arcane forces.
- That fighter has certainly sparred - maybe even killed a man - but never has he been the bulwark against a terryfying ogre - or fought outside of a company with "Non-Fighters" - or been the agent of his own victory in combat.
etc. etc.
The biggest difference to me - is that the 1st Level Adventurer is facing his first moments away from direction. Away from Knight-Commanders, Guild Masters and Hierophants (old edition druidic leaders).
NPCs are victims of Fate... Adventurers are agents of Free Will.
Power level means very little to me.
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