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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 12:23PM
#21
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I think there is a happy middle.
I like Saving Throws, and I like what D&D Next has done with saving throws.
I hated 2E saves (they made no sense), 4E took the fun right out of it and made them defences, 3E was alright but I didn't like that only three stats were used for saves.
Honestly what I would like to see is the caster roll the DC and the defender roll save. I don't understand why we can't have opposed rolls in combat.
Opposed rolls can slow down a game. Not will slow down a game, can.
Though, I like the idea of opposed rolls for certain spells. Charms, illusions, baleful polymorph, and the like this could be a great system. I don't think it works so great with fireball, lightning bolt, and those because that is where you get into the "can slow down a game" problems.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 4:29PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2011
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As I said before, they just have to open up the math, whatever it is. Put it on the DMG or whatever. This way you can use it in any way you want.
Now imagine a DM that decides who rolls what on a case-by-case fashion, based on the atmosphere he/she wants to create. Really, just Imagine the possibilities for a second.
My character is called Ryotto Tyrannicide, wich comes from "tyrannicidal riot".
He wields two magic swords: King Beheader (as in "Beheader of Kings", not "King the Beheader") and Chain Splitter. He's also a bit of a skirt-chaser.
So yeah, I REALLY hope you have some Lawful Evil bad guys prepared for me. Government/trade/church conspiracies are optional, but highly recommended.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 10:00PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2008
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As I said before, they just have to open up the math, whatever it is. Put it on the DMG or whatever. This way you can use it in any way you want.
Now imagine a DM that decides who rolls what on a case-by-case fashion, based on the atmosphere he/she wants to create. Really, just Imagine the possibilities for a second.
I'm imagining lots of frustration and confusion
"But last time I cast X I rolled"
"Well, this time is different because XYZ" DM rolls X fails
"Sorry, it doesn't work"
" I should be the one rolling" player rolls X succeeds
We end up with bad blood. Not every time, and certain people could probably make it work great, but it could easily lead to rule checking and debates simply over who gets to roll the dice.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:20AM
#24
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Without doubt: magic attack vs defenses.
Outgrowing saving throws is no different from outgrowing THAC0.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:26AM
#25
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Because it puts the roll to resist mind control and other huge things like that in the hands of the player.
No it doesnt put mind control in the hands of the player. If you are the Psion casting a mind control spell at a monster, the outcome of *your* action isnt in your hands at all. It sucks.
It sucks to just have the DM say "does a 37 hit your will? Ohhhhh, too bad."
Indeed, it sucks to have the DM say, too bad, you dont get to do anything on your turn.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:36AM
#26
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I don't think that any person should be asked that question "which would you prefer to roll" but only the caster players, for they are the poeple who pay the price.
Yeah, the only people who get to answer this question are the players who are playing Wizards and other mages.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:56AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2012
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The positive about the caster rolling an "attack" is that, from the DM's point of view, the players don't need to know if you passed their defense or not. In case of the obvious "getting out of the blaze area from a fireball" it's not really relevant, but in case of a suggestion/charm spell, well, it's getting interesting. I've alway rolled my saves since DnD Basic and enjoyed the thrill, if not the result of rolling this die. However, I cannot remember how many death occured because of this *#@¬ die. Thinking back about it, I do not miss it. We could ask ourselves the question the other way round, Why wouldn't we roll a dice for defense ? You know, dodging, parrying or getting saved by our armor...
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 5:14PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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It's half dozen of one and 6 of the other. On one hand it's fun to blast through getting a high roll and beating someone's defenses, on the other hand it sucks when they do it to you and you just take it. But it also builds tension and excitement when you have to beat a saving through aftger getting beat up a little and that moment of releif if you actually make it.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 07, 2012 - 6:41PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2011
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As I said before, they just have to open up the math, whatever it is. Put it on the DMG or whatever. This way you can use it in any way you want.
Now imagine a DM that decides who rolls what on a case-by-case fashion, based on the atmosphere he/she wants to create. Really, just Imagine the possibilities for a second.
I'm imagining lots of frustration and confusion
"But last time I cast X I rolled"
"Well, this time is different because XYZ" DM rolls X fails
"Sorry, it doesn't work"
" I should be the one rolling" player rolls X succeeds
We end up with bad blood. Not every time, and certain people could probably make it work great, but it could easily lead to rule checking and debates simply over who gets to roll the dice.
3.5E actually opened the math up in the DMG, and what you mention never happened. What I advocate is that they acually tell people to shift 11's around, as that keeps the same odds, instead of 10's (read my previous post).
I also believe that they should support all styles.
4E' "offense always rolls"? Allow us.
3E's saving throw approach? Allow us.
I was just mentioning another entirely new playstyle that would become possible if they open up the math. Open the math, then tell us what playstyles are possible, giving us a default one and options with guidance, and we're good. Isn't that what "modular" is supposed to be?
Giving everyone what they want might be hard on some cases, but it is INSANELY easy in this one.
My character is called Ryotto Tyrannicide, wich comes from "tyrannicidal riot".
He wields two magic swords: King Beheader (as in "Beheader of Kings", not "King the Beheader") and Chain Splitter. He's also a bit of a skirt-chaser.
So yeah, I REALLY hope you have some Lawful Evil bad guys prepared for me. Government/trade/church conspiracies are optional, but highly recommended.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 08, 2012 - 7:08AM
#30
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If 5e allows the choice of defense or save or player always rolls, the mechanics seem simple enough.
For example, instead of saying “AC 15”, the description would just say “AC +5”. The decision to add bese 10 as a defense (resistance) or add d20 as an effort (energy), would depend on playstyle.
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