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8 months ago ::
Sep 28, 2012 - 10:44PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2008
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I'm unhappy with the swingy D20. For example with small modifiers like a Dex save with 13 Dex is just D20 with +1 so it's basically a coin flip wether you dodge the dragon breath the problem that the designers don't seem to understand is that the D20 system (which is great in 3.5 and PF) is designed with higher modifiers like + 5 to +15 and so on.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:06AM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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The D20 system is congruent with the old AD&D system, which was not designed with +5 or +15 in mind.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:14AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2009
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+1, +5, +15 it doesn't matter, the numbers are an optical illusion. If the DCs are set at 11, 16, 25 respectively, you still only have a 50/50 chance at succeeding.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:42AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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The flaw of the d20 was always the size.The father the character's modifier is from the target DC, the more the roll is based of pure dumb luck.
But all is not lost.
DM Advice:
The key is the DC.
You cannot put high DCs for stuff you describe as easy.
If basic skill training in next is +3, then a DC13 is 50/50 for a skilled character.
So you cannot place a DC 13 on something you expect an expert to be able to do regularly. No DCs 13+ for identifying berries because it makes unrealistic results for a Nature lore or Survaval expert.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:08AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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Wouldn't an "easy" DC be about 3?
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:12AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 10, 2007
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The D20 system is congruent with the old AD&D system, which was not designed with +5 or +15 in mind.
The problem with this is that the saving throws used in AD&D had nothing to do with your ability scores. The ability score didn't even modify a saving throw.
These were simply matrixes that improved as your character got more powerful. a 5th level magic user had a much better chance to save vs spells than a fighter of the same level, while that same fighter had an easier time against breath weapons.
It's a fools errand to bring up AD&D systems in comparison to WotC systems since they are apples to mangos.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:30AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
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The problem with this is that the saving throws used in AD&D had nothing to do with your ability scores. The ability score didn't even modify a saving throw.
Yes, they did. Dex in 1E & 2E, and Wis in 2E, with Wis affecting the victim's saves in 1E.
However, exactly when they applied was so esoteric that most groups simply forgot about it.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:30AM
#8
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Well.. yes, this is the inherrent flaw of any d20 system and is why most other RPGs use multiple dice...
It seems however that there is a hidden rule that says "Not d20, not D&D" so there is nothing to be done.
But, for a less swingy houserule, just replace the d20 with 2d10 and play as usual (and get a bell curve).
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:31AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Wouldn't an "easy" DC be about 3?
Yup.
A 100% for experts DC would be DC 3
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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8 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:33AM
#10
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I had a similar thought about AC recently... would it not be better to start ACs for unarmored off at something less than 10? It would give more 'effective hit space' especially under bounded accuracy.
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