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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 2:32PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2011
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Monster stats definitely need alteration. A four tier system isn't a bad way to go, with the minion types being there as fodder, the "normals" as ones to whittle with the potential to be dangerous, the "elites" being on par (one on one) with a pc, and the "solos" being the ones that can take the whole party on while laughing if they weren't prepared.
I agree with this. 4e had it right in that respect. With D&DNext, I hope they set very clear ways to slide monsters on that scale as well, so we can decide how challenging we want to make our campaigns, our adventurers or even just each encounter. If they get the numbers right, they can have very clear guidelines that show how to turn a normal monster into an elite, or how to change a normal into a minion (mook). The changes in "to hit" score, hit points and damage should also be completely calibrated with the XP value. This will make encounter/adventure building a snap.
The key is that they should give DM as much leverage as possible to vary combat encounters so that the DM can make each encounter interesting...some easy, some moderate and some difficult...even some impossible (let the PCs run away).
I think they can do all of this without making combats slow to a crawl. Basically, speed of the combat should be fast (like it is), but combat encounters should take a little longer if they are moderate or difficult.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 4:18PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I think the main thing is that the combats should be compelling, not necessarily longer. I hate difficult fights boiling down to standing and swinging at one another for longer, and we'll see who runs out of hit points first. Basically I'd prefer that this comic: www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1...becomes a thing of the past. Maybe I just want a shadow of the colossus module for larger monsters or something, but the toe to toe fight is only fun for the first...2d6 rounds, tops.
'That's just, like, your opinion, man.'
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 4:29PM
#23
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The round speed is fine. Thank god we will no longer have to wait 20-30 minutes for a player's turn to come around again. I think the skirmishes are well done too. Little bits where players can use their imagination, do things off the cuff, and try out new stuff without getting too severely punished. The one thing I would tweak is elite combat. They seem either a little too fragile or not unique enough.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 4:32PM
#24
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I think the main thing is that the combats should be compelling, not necessarily longer. I hate difficult fights boiling down to standing and swinging at one another for longer, and we'll see who runs out of hit points first.
Basically I'd prefer that this comic: www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1...
becomes a thing of the past.
Maybe I just want a shadow of the colossus module for larger monsters or something, but the toe to toe fight is only fun for the first...2d6 rounds, tops.
Yes, if possible, this is the most important thing in 5E. More important than class balance, vancian or not wizzies and fighter ego.
How can the rules make a fight against a huge thing interesting without making it a hp-grind?
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:05PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2009
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I think the main thing is that the combats should be compelling, not necessarily longer. I hate difficult fights boiling down to standing and swinging at one another for longer, and we'll see who runs out of hit points first.
Basically I'd prefer that this comic: www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1...
becomes a thing of the past.
Maybe I just want a shadow of the colossus module for larger monsters or something, but the toe to toe fight is only fun for the first...2d6 rounds, tops.
Yes, if possible, this is the most important thing in 5E. More important than class balance, vancian or not wizzies and fighter ego.
How can the rules make a fight against a huge thing interesting without making it a hp-grind?
Well ...
Let me start with a disclaimer: I am generally not a fan of Called Shot rules - I find that they usually add complexity for little or no gain and are difficult to balance. (And I seem to recall an SKR rant from a decade ago with that general idea).
However - much of that assumes you are talking about creatures around your own size. If you are attacking another medium creature - hitting that eye is so unlikely that any extra damage is a wash.
But when that eye is the size of a dinner plate.
I could see a manuever for a called shot - perhaps level dependant - with creature size playing a role in the attack. Perhaps you can only do a called shot on a creature at least two sizes larger than you are. Take a shot with disadvantage, if you hit you do damage equivalent to a critical hit. (This would also help to balance out the hafling's knockback being less effective due to size).
There could even be a manuever to climb or run up a creature at least two (three?) sizes larger and gain advantage by doing so.
Carl
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:08PM
#26
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The monsters are pretty boring, and fragile.
Maybe a few of them should freak out when bloodied and make the end games of the fight more interesting.
You mean like they could have this condition when you get to half hit points, lets called it 'Bloodied', and that would say let the monster recharge some power it has or trigger a transformation or power use! I'm brilliant!
That is not dead which may eternal lie
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:37PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Um? what? I don't understand.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 5:42PM
#28
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Other soultions from various other RPGs I have played are:
* Make giant creatures powerful but make them act really slowly. Maybe one action every second or third round (because of their size). So a giant could move in one round and attack in the next round, allowing players to adjust. The bigger they are, the slower they act.
* Make giant creatures make full round actions that complete in the next round, allowing players to react.
* Give giant creatures weaknesses that can be exploitable by tactics, but are not automatic wins.
Personally I like the top one from the rpg Trudvang, the slow moving gigantic monsters really created a feeling of their size.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:38PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2008
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Simple HP bloat byt itself is never the answer. 4E found this out the hard way, then had to turn the dial back with MM3. What are the current symptoms? 1) Monsters have too few HP 2) Monsters do not hit very often, but when they do it's brutal 3) PCs deal damage to the point that they can 1-shot monsters (not precisely the same as 1) Solutions to these problems? 1) If we bump the HP up a tad (and a tad only) 2) Bump the to-hit bonuses up, dial the damage back proportionally 3) Monsters can have higher ACs and use tactical maneuvers Example, s-blocked for convenience: Goblin
Show
Using the level 1 goblin from the playtest material, we see that:
A) It has 3 hit points.
B) It has -1 to-hit, 1d6-1 damage (mace), and +1 to-hit, 1d6+1 damage (bow)
C) It has an AC of 13
D) It has the Dirty Fighter (+2) trait, which gives +2 to damage rolls.
What do we get from this?
A) The HPs are extremely low. A single hit from a sling and it's dead.
B) Level 1 PCs typically have ACs between 12-17 (give or take). He's going to have to roll very high.
C) The AC is not atrocious, and potentially higher (by 1 or 2) than a level 1 wizard.
D) This is good. Very good...if it's used.
What can we do about it?
A) Bump the HPs up to 6. It could still be 1-shotted, but it's not guaranteed.
B) Bump his to-hit bonus up to +1/+3. Damage dialed back by -1/-3.
C) I think the AC is okay. Maybe a bump up to 14 or 15 wouldn't hurt.
D) Take full advatage of this. Goblins are best in swarms, and this trait was made for swarms.
Rewrite the goblin to:
AC: 15
Hit Points: 6
Mace: +1 to hit, 1d6-2 damage.
Bow: +3 to hit, 1d6-2 damage.
This creature is now more of a threat with his higher to-hit, not as instantly lethal with his damage dialed back a bit, and a bit harder to hit with an AC bump. This at least puts him in the 2-hit category as opposed to his usual 1-hit-dead category. Combat can still run quickly, but be more meaningful and potentially more damaging due to nothing more than the monsters hanging around longer.
In fond memory of Mark "Wrecan" Monack.
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9 months ago ::
Sep 29, 2012 - 6:40PM
#30
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I think the main thing is that the combats should be compelling, not necessarily longer. I hate difficult fights boiling down to standing and swinging at one another for longer, and we'll see who runs out of hit points first.
Basically I'd prefer that this comic: www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1...
becomes a thing of the past.
Maybe I just want a shadow of the colossus module for larger monsters or something, but the toe to toe fight is only fun for the first...2d6 rounds, tops.
Yes, if possible, this is the most important thing in 5E. More important than class balance, vancian or not wizzies and fighter ego.
How can the rules make a fight against a huge thing interesting without making it a hp-grind?
Well ...
Let me start with a disclaimer: I am generally not a fan of Called Shot rules - I find that they usually add complexity for little or no gain and are difficult to balance. (And I seem to recall an SKR rant from a decade ago with that general idea).
However - much of that assumes you are talking about creatures around your own size. If you are attacking another medium creature - hitting that eye is so unlikely that any extra damage is a wash.
But when that eye is the size of a dinner plate.
I could see a manuever for a called shot - perhaps level dependant - with creature size playing a role in the attack. Perhaps you can only do a called shot on a creature at least two sizes larger than you are. Take a shot with disadvantage, if you hit you do damage equivalent to a critical hit. (This would also help to balance out the hafling's knockback being less effective due to size).
There could even be a manuever to climb or run up a creature at least two (three?) sizes larger and gain advantage by doing so.
Carl
In contrast, called shots were pretty much the thing that made 2E fighters & thieves cool for my group. Granted, we didn't do things by RAW in the least. Pretty much instead of "called shot," what we did could be more accurately described as "take a penalty to do a cool thing."
Slice at the powerful wand on the enemy mage's belt to destroy it? Called shot handles that(incidentally, the resulting explosion killed both the mage and my fighter, so... oops). Grab onto the dragon's tail before it leaps into the air? Called shot to grab. Strength to hold. Draw your sword to block the arrow fired at you from point blank range? That one I had to roll a natural 20 to achieve(and did, which was a nice contrast to the previous character who accidentally missed a group with a burning barrel of lamp oil and instead burned down the church at the bottom of the hill).
The lack of hard coded abilities in 2E allowed a lot of freedom that 3E and beyond lost(in practice at least. in theory, of course there was nothing stopping people from making up stuff just as they did before, but no one seemed to anymore). I'm not saying that we should necessarily go back to that(the feedback from the first playtest would paint me into the minority if I did), but rather that just because we have more clearly defined lines now doesn't mean you have to color in them.
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