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9 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 5:30PM
#111
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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Not in a system with HD/surges.
If we were dealing with a 3e scenario where one could make an even semi-coherent case for HP as being actual vitality sure the warlord being restricted to Temp Hp might make sense.
However in a game system where you can be reduced to 1 hp and then non-magically patched up in 5 minutes HP obviously don't represent mere physical damage, so the warlord has as much right to heal as any other class.
Also that's not incoherence, incoherence means jumbled or working at cross purposes, you just don't like the non-mages horning in on the spell casters turf.
The problem with that is that this tugs at a fissure. When you begin saying "the Warlord should heal like 4e, because the entire concept of HP is an abstraction" then all the people who don't want the Warlord to heal will clamor for HP to be actual damage, and then you have a huge divided base
PS: even with 3e, HP was supposed to be an abstraction. I'm pretty sure that concept goes back to Gygax. I think it may have been different in 2e, but it's been so long since I played it, and I only played a couple games of it.
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 5:36PM
#112
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I agree that temporary hp seems to be the way to go for warlord healing.
If they have temporary hp it adds an extra layer of complexity that I thought was a little odd in 4e. And they buff the usage sufficiently to make up for not being a true chips are down ability.... it is still to me just a "maybe"... I worry about the "cleric" in every party syndrome.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 6:10PM
#113
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2012
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I agree that temporary hp seems to be the way to go for warlord healing.
If they have temporary hp it adds an extra layer of complexity that I thought was a little odd in 4e. And they buff the usage sufficiently to make up for not being a true chips are down ability.... it is still to me just a "maybe"... I worry about the "cleric" in every party syndrome.
Wasn't Temp HP from 3e? It never seemed that difficult to me, but I'll admit, the book kind of sucks in explaining it, so I could see how some people think it complex.
As for the "cleric in every party" syndrome, I don't think it's that bad, so long as it doesn't have to be a cleric, and more importantly doesn't have to be boring, which looks like something that they're doing. It probably won't be as good as 4e (which I'm afraid will be the case with a lot of things that used to be the purview of 4e roles, and I'm afraid party cooperation will suffer for it), but the cleric has spells that let them heal and attack, and there's the specialty (can't we just go back to calling them themes?) that lets you make healing potions (though the cost is really a bad Idea, IMO. Since it's supposed to be Herbalism, the way I'd do it is that you spend a certain amount of time, and can make X for the day, but after a day, the herbs and salves lose their potency, and expire).
I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 04, 2012 - 6:13PM
#114
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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I like the tephra crafting system, you get a number of items you can craft for free based on your focus upon crafting, but you have to maintain the stuff personally so you can't sell potions from your personal stash.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:26AM
#115
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2012
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Not in a system with HD/surges.
If we were dealing with a 3e scenario where one could make an even semi-coherent case for HP as being actual vitality sure the warlord being restricted to Temp Hp might make sense.
However in a game system where you can be reduced to 1 hp and then non-magically patched up in 5 minutes HP obviously don't represent mere physical damage, so the warlord has as much right to heal as any other class.
Also that's not incoherence, incoherence means jumbled or working at cross purposes, you just don't like the non-mages horning in on the spell casters turf.
What? No! I love that. I can take the notion that hp already don't make much sense so the warlord's healing ain't as crazy as "wounds closing thanks to shouting". You don't have to jump in to defend the warlord, it is one of my favorite classes.
But you do have to admit that either you play in a very non-describing kind of combat or the warlord's powers sometimes lead to situations really hard to imagine, like essentially no enemy attack landing a powerful attack because then how the hell did the character got up after being impaled? Oh! yeah, it is courage. The first time it is kind of epic, the others it messes with my suspension of disbelieve. In short, I believe it could be done better. In a more natural way.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:34AM
#116
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2012
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The 4E was very front loaded but between a feat and a maneuver I think you can get feel (but not the power) of a warlord in the 1st level.
The feat could provide some way to inspire temporary hitpoints to allies while the fighter maneuver could add damage and/or accuracy to allies attacking a particular target.
Or we could go the other way around. The maneuver could be something like "Inspiring attack" which lets you sacrifice a Combat Superiority dice previous to attacking. If you hit, allies gain temporary hitpoints equal to the dice roll (this hitpoints would not stack). The feat, on the other hand, could let you do something warlordy like use your move action to have allies move.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:51AM
#117
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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If they have temporary hp it adds an extra layer of complexity that I thought was a little odd in 4e.
THP doesn't seem all that difficult. Damage removes Temporary HP before affecting regular HP and disappears at the end of an encounter. Voila.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 5:55AM
#118
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While shouts of courage and morale as HP make sense (bards should get a little too), I wouldn't cry foul (much) if warlords didn't heal at all.
IMO, it's not actually the warlords main schtick. Warlords should grant Offense/Defense bonuses (phalax formation: Must wield a shield. Each adjacent ally with a shield gets +1 AC), extra attacks (using allies reactions), and movement (Covering Feignt: You can use a reaction to stop an opportunity attack).
guides
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my builds
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 6:04AM
#119
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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If they have temporary hp it adds an extra layer of complexity that I thought was a little odd in 4e.
THP doesn't seem all that difficult. Damage removes Temporary HP before affecting regular HP and disappears at the end of an encounter. Voila.
Regular hit points pretty much recovered at the end of an encounter via resting and so on...and adding another thing to track which sort of also measures ability to reduce/absorb or buffer against the damage of an attack seems well... redundant and adds to the complexity (its another thing to track... it was even moreso with the battlerager vigor).
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9 months ago ::
Oct 05, 2012 - 6:13AM
#120
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If they have temporary hp it adds an extra layer of complexity that I thought was a little odd in 4e.
THP doesn't seem all that difficult. Damage removes Temporary HP before affecting regular HP and disappears at the end of an encounter. Voila.
Regular hit points pretty much recovered at the end of an encounter via resting and so on...and adding another thing to track which sort of also measures ability to reduce/absorb or buffer against the damage of an attack seems well... redundant and adds to the complexity (its another thing to track... it was even moreso with the battlerager vigor).
That's my main aversion to THP.
While damage absorption spells, readying yourself for a blow, and the like all fit with it, i'm not sure it's worth the complexity.
How about as damage reduction? Mathmaticly the same as healing or THP.
"Shouting encuragement, your ally bolsters himself for the blow: When an ally is hit, you can reduce the damage by 1d8 as a reaction.
guides
Show
my builds
Show
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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