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Sep 27, 2012 -- 5:59PM, CarlT wrote:

Sep 27, 2012 -- 5:52PM, The_Jester wrote:

In the playtest package humans are the only race without a "subrace" despite being the most diverse and adaptive race. And, because they're less of a "hook" for the race and racial powers humans get very blank bonuses.

What about changing that? Say, taking a page from Dragonlance and having "civilized" or "barbarian" humans. Give one a bonus to mental skills and the other a bonus to physical skills. Add new powers accordingly, such as hardiness or wilderness survival powers for one and others suggesting intelligence and decadence. 

The names are flexible. "Urban" and "nomadic" would work. As would "urbane / erudite" and "wild / rural". 

It instantly adds some distinction to humans. The suggestion of story and world building. Humans aren't all identicalThere are the savage Cimmeria and the softer south folk. There are the Northfolk and the southern people beyond the wall. The hardy barbarian tribes of the traders from Ten-Towns. There are the rough Germanic folk or the culture Romans. 

Thoughts?

Are these racaial distinctions with actually mechanical differences - or are these cultural differences in skills and flavor - and thus better handled through backgrounds.

Carl

It can go either way.
Halfling subspecies seem very different but dwarves and elves are all cultural and where they grew up. Why are humans different? 

Backgrounds are also bigger now than "raised in the desert", less of just origins and more professions.
Plus, backgrounds don't touch stats and you'd expect barbarian tribes and wildlings to be a little sturdier than city folk. And it makes nomadic wizards and the like inherently more rare and interesting. It's not necessarily unoptimal but less easily made. 

And, more importantly, it's a story hook to hang mechanics onto beyond "+1 to all stats". 

Sep 27, 2012 -- 7:15PM, Hocus-Smokus wrote:

Elves had aquatic elves, Silvanesti, Qualinesti, Kagonesti, Dark Elves, Gray Elves, High Elves, Avariel (Winged Elves) and more.

Dwarves had hill dwarves, mountain dwarves, gully dwarves, deep dwarves, sundered dwarves, Duergar (Gray Dwarves), and others.

Gnomes had rock gnomes, Svirfneblin (Deep Gnomes), Tinker Gnomes, Forest Gnomes, and more.

Halflings had Hairfoot, Stout, Tallfellow, Kender (yes, Kender fell under Halflings in the 2E Complete Gnomes and Halflings book), Athasian halflings (cannibals), Furchin (arctic halfling), and more.

Hell, even Thri-Kreen had Trin, Zik-Chil, and Zik-Trin  

We've had half-races such as half-elf, half-dwarf (Mul), half-giant, and half-ogre. 

Why humans can't have "sub-races" is beyond me, D&D-speaking.   

I can tell you why - but it doesn't mean I agree with it 100%..

1)  Human subraces cuts awfully close to racial identity in the real world. When subraces are suggested, people almost always suggest collections of racial stereotypes from the real world.  In the real world, these are purely cultural distinctions and it is offensive to some to suggest differences in mechanics such as ability scores.  This is not true of fantasy races because they don't have real world equivalents and thus don't carry real-world weight.

2)  Human subraces are often social constructs tied to the world's setting - far more than is the case with subraces of the other races.   Most DMs can see that dark elves or mountain dwarves have a place in their setting.  A subrace like the Fflok only makes sense if they are part of their setting.


The advantage of taking those populations that are clearly distinct from normal humans - but who are descended from them one way or the other as the 'human subraces' is that it a) avoids number 1 by being purely fantasy in origin and b) avoids number 2 by representing distinct groups whose differences go far beyond pure culture.

In this view - the human subraces are:  The githyanki and githzerai, the skulks, shades, etc.  Perhaps even Tieflings.  They are mostly human and share a human origin - but they are no longer typical humans.    (And they are not necessarily all playable races  and likely none - except maybe tieflings -will be 5N core).  Although it would be awesome if they included a gith or a shade (for example) as a human subrace option.

The hybrid races such as half-elf and half-orc could also be included in this view (I like the idea myself) but do not need to be. 

Carl