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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 4:24PM
#21
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Looking at the rules, you need to make an unarmed melee touch attack. I'm not sure it's ever explicitly stated that you can't make an unarmed strike without a hand, but the description of the Monk's IUS feature very much suggests that you can't (since why mention that monks can, otherwise?), though admittedly that's an implication not a fact. It might be covered in one of the Rules of the Game articles. Simply put, if you're OK with people "dual-wielding" their glaives and their feet, fine, but if you don't let people use unarmed strikes without their hands, then you shouldn't really let them trip without their hands (unless they're using a trip weapon, or are a monk, or whatever). DM call in this case. (I was only making a (real-life) logical argument because you said "logic doesn't support it", and I'd say it does (to the extent that logic is followed in D&D rules at all, anyway))
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 5:16PM
#22
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Riddle me this,if I trip an treant with my foot,does a tree-man make a sound in the forest as it falls?
I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 30, 2012 - 9:43PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2002
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I guess another question is: I am a bard. I want to kick someone. Is that resolved as an unarmed attack? And I suppose if so, then I can perform a trip with my foot.
If a kick isn't an unarmed attack, what is it?
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"It was a great tactic, and our GM applauded us. Sadly the Werewolf burst free in only two rounds, and killed everyone but the Sorceress who teleported away with only one arm." - Tetsuoh
"Having absolutely no ranks in any knowledges, my beloved Ric Flair based monk/rogue took off running immediately and attempted suicide by jumping off the bridge we were fighting on." - spitewrathhatred
"He asked me how old my character was (I said 82), and then rolled what his maximum age was. Because the number he rolled was less than what I had said, he informed me that my Bard was dead, and that I needed to make a new character." - King_of_the_Pudding
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 4:01AM
#24
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In theory, yes, but the implication of the rules seems to be that you can't, because, well, you can't kick people. You don't know how. It's kinda stupid like that I guess, so one might easily say to hell with it, yes you can, and certainly I would say that if you can, you can make a trip attack like that. It kind of boils down to a DM ruling though, I think.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 8:30AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2011
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read the rules, you only need use a unarmed strike or a weapon with the trip ability, now a unarmed strike can be any part of the body that can be used to attack (DM discretion) therefore you dont need a free hand, as Krusk say is the World of D&D and her rules are described in the books of the games.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 1:26PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2003
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You don't need a hand free, or even need to have hands at all to trip. A gelatinous cube, a strige, and a quadruple amputee could make trip attacks within the size limitations, they just wouldn't usually be very good at it. The point of the melee touch attack in the power is to set the range to be melee reach, and to determine which AC you have to hit in order to even make the trip attempt. If you have a weapon that allows tripping with the weapon the you get the benefits of: A) Applying the enhancement bonus of your weapon to the attack roll. B) Applying any bonus the weapon grants to the trip attempt C) If you are counter tripped, you can drop the weapon instead of going prone.
I guess another question is: I am a bard. I want to kick someone. Is that resolved as an unarmed attack? And I suppose if so, then I can perform a trip with my foot.
If a kick isn't an unarmed attack, what is it?
In theory, yes, but the implication of the rules seems to be that you can't, because, well, you can't kick people. You don't know how. It's kinda stupid like that I guess, so one might easily say to hell with it, yes you can, and certainly I would say that if you can, you can make a trip attack like that. It kind of boils down to a DM ruling though, I think.
A kick would be an unarmed attack dealing non-lethal damage only which would provoke an attack of opportunity from your target (and only your target) if they are armed, unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike. You can deal lethal damage without improved unarmed strike if you take a -4 on the attack roll.
This is described under Action in Combat -> Standard Actions -> Attack -> Unarmed Attacks in the SRD. This section also describes an unarmed strike as follows:
Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon....
Nothing in the rules describes an unarmed strike as a punch - it is simply any melee attack not using a weapon.
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8 months ago ::
Oct 01, 2012 - 3:02PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2008
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Thank you Zan. Your reply is much more concise and in 3.5 terms than the hodgepodge 3.75 rule I posted earlier in the thread, and I have copy/pasted your post as a better and "official" ruling for our game for when/if it ever comes up again.
Neue
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8 months ago ::
Oct 02, 2012 - 1:48PM
#28
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you only need use a unarmed strike or a weapon with the trip ability, now a unarmed strike can be any part of the body that can be used to attack (DM discretion)
This is pretty much exactly what I said, isn't it?
Zan - note that that line doesn't actually say that just anybody can use kicks and headbutts. It's perfectly reasonable to say they could, but it's slightly into the realm of DM interpretation, especially since IIRC there is a Rules of the Game article which suggests that if you wanted to use, say, claws and unarmed strikes, you'd have to give up a claw attack since your arm is your "primary limb" (it uses this "primary limb" thing which I take to mean that, sure, a creature without arms could make a trip using a different body part).
I would just say, as usual, ask your DM.
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