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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 11:05AM
#11
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So what do you think of the Gnome then, who traditionally is even smaller?
Gnomes aren't actually generally smaller than halflings; in 3.5, they're actually significantly larger; 3.5 gnomes are a full four inches taller than 3.5 halflings. 2e gnomes average 3'6/3'4, making them an inch taller than 2e halflings (although they have a much, much narrower range of heights; the shortest 2e halflings are five inches shorter than the shortest gnomes, while the tallest halflings are four inches taller than the tallest gnomes.) 4e gnomes are shorter than 4e halflings, "rarely exceeding four feet" (4e halfling average four feet), but 4e halflings are taller to begin with.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:41PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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I've always liked small halflings (though under 3' is getting a little silly for me), but I agree it changes their mechanics and style more than is generally accounted for. While I enjoy fat tolkien hobbits it's impossible for me to rectify that with being dextrous. My solution was to alter the mechanics and style of hobbits somewhat.
Being much smaller, but loving food, likely stems from an excellerated metabolism. This removes the 'fat' (at least until old age, see later) but justifies the dexterity (as well as a tendency towards 'Kenderism'...adhd, restlessness, etc). Due to some peculiarities about our version of the game having a high dex means lowered wisdom (explained by their impulsiveness and curiosity), but this wouldn't need to be true in mainstream D&D. While the lowered mass at this size would suggest lower strength, high energy and activity tends to couple with well developed (if proportional), multi-layered, lean muscles. The speed, density and level of development offset the loss of mass enough to not require gimping strength, though it's perfectly logical if they decide to go this route.
With small stature, and high dexterity, should come a reliance upon missile and thrown weapons (more like Warrows), with some 'reach' weapons thrown in for good measure. Mind you, to scale a halfling spear would be roughly a large human arrow, but to them they're reach weapons. Point being to small races (other than dwarves) it should be all about keeping things away from them.
The high metabolism likely maintains a youthful appearance and high energy for a fairly long time, but once the body begins to burn out it should reverse itself, leading to aged halflings growing fat and slothlike. This is my compromise to the original imagining.
I'd rather change the flavor and mechanics to fit the above than make them 4' tall on average, though it wouldn't kill the game for me either.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:46PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Short enough to be distinct from other races, tall enough that they don't have to have ant-like muscle density to justify their strength scores. Seriously, with their incredible strength-mass ratios 3rd edition halflings should be able to bound over buildings.
This is part of why I want them to at least a little stocky, rather than having perfectly average human proportions. (really 3rd edition compounded the issue by making them particularly slight in addition to incredibly tiny)
Of course, you go down to far on that path and they're basically beardless dwarves. (and Gnomes are already kind of miniature dwarves)
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 1:49PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2009
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Traditonally, I guess I meant that more in the broader sense of where the idea of Gnomes orignated from. Really little more than Brownies. I'd really like to know how they became their current iteration as a PC race and why they weren't fey creatures instead. It really seems like their poaching on the half-lings territory, I mean, why have two undersized PC races?
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 2:07PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Traditonally, I guess I meant that more in the broader sense of where the idea of Gnomes orignated from. Really little more than Brownies. I'd really like to know how they became their current iteration as a PC race and why they weren't fey creatures instead. It really seems like their poaching on the half-lings territory, I mean, why have two undersized PC races?
I'm not really a personal fan of either - I never play them. They have distinct personality stereotypes - sort of. The halfling is all over the place - veering wildly from his hobbit roots to deliberate subversions of that. In both cases the very caricatured depictions of Dragonlance kenders and tinker gnomes seeped heavily into the core halfling and gnome and that influence has been gradually culled over time.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 2:13PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2009
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Which is funny, because Dragonlance's version of both races is, IMO, the Besties! :P
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 3:22PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Hobbits were about 3 foot... and had a slow maximum running speed but were quite capable of a quick dash in to hiding trick and often without training very light of touch and incredibly quiet without thinking about it..Bilbo was an actual talent at stone tossing. Handing the fellow a ring of invisibility and a gondorian blade may have been over doing it instant higher level thief by authorial fiat.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 3:34PM
#18
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Skimming over artwork, it seems like giving a small race a slightly larger head, proportionally, goes a long way towards making them "scan" right, and also making it so that when they're juxtaposed with a human, it looks like a human and a small race member instead of a human and a giant. There's a picture in Dungeonscape of Nebin (a gnome), Lidda (a halfling) and Jozan (a human). Nebin has a head that's disproportionately large compared to his body; Lidda does not. Jozan and Nebin look "correct" next to each other, like a human and a member of a smaller race. Lidda, however, reads as doll-like compared to Jozan, or else looks like a regular human with Jozan appearing to be a giant. Nebin is a little larger - gnomes are bigger than halflings in 3.5 and Nebin's a guy - but I think that his slightly enlarged head is really what sells the scale.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 3:35PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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larger heads look child like.
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8 months ago ::
Sep 27, 2012 - 3:37PM
#20
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larger heads look child like.
They do, and I think that's a big part of what makes the characters read well as a being of the size they are.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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